.JPG)
third thing...On what exegetical basis, would we, as servants, of the most high, come to understand that, for the first time in 2000 years, part of honoring the wishes of our master would be to split up the families as a part of worshipping Him? How is it that they should not partake in hearing those very things that they should be trained up into? ....." son what did the pastor mean when he talked of such and such?"....Dad, what does this_____ mean?
Voddie has thrown out the challenge again and again to "show me" why should the family be split up?
(sound of crickets chriping)
Yes! we must judge and discern what others do and advocate, No! we do not despise them. But rather, in the biblical example and manner of our sweet loving savior, we respond as he responded to the defenders and teachers of the man made traditions of His day!
Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying: 8 'These people draw near to Me with their mouth, And honor Me with their lips, But their heart is far from Me. 9 And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.'[ Matt 15:7-9 ….and…. …. He answered and said to them, "Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? Matt 15:3
Or in Pauls example, and yes, even Jesus, ridicule them….“why don’t you just split up the family the rest of the week too? Better yet! Just let Caesar teach your kids!" (Doug Wilson has mentioned that these are hard times for a satirist.)
Then His disciples came and said to Him, "Do You know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying?" 13 But He answered and said, "Every plant which My heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted. 14 Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch." Matt 15:12-14 that is a good one! (If anyone ever asks…” did Jesus make fun of people?” … you can start here.)
And is not "So then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding." Romans 14:19, in context, talking about ….."Hey, whats to eat?"
So no more smoothie jokes. But its always open season on coffee, “where’s Rob…..”
But as for you, speak the things which are proper for sound doctrine: Titus 2:1
Thursday, November 5, 2009
each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.II
Second thing… what should be our Perspective? Are we free agents?
Proverbs says about a wife who loves her husband… “that his heart trusts safely in her” so she is out doing business transactions left and right and he safely trusts in her. My wife pays attention to me and will do things for me or in my place and nails it most of the time and can say …” I knew you would like that” If she was concerned that her “growth as a women” was being stunted, or wondering if she is missing out on “Liberty” by being focused on her husband she would instead say…” I just did what I, thought was best.”
We are the bride of Christ, no?
I recently noted that we are to have the mind of Christ and take every thought captive as servants etc etc. Additionally consider:…
If you understand that you have been bought and paid for…if you realize that you are no longer your own…if you are now a bondservant like James, Paul and John…if you want to do your masters will because you love him and owe him everything, including your next breath…If you want to be like Jesus, doing only what he see’s the father doing and saying only what the father says….if you are trying to study the ways of God so that you can be a good servant … then when you come upon ….a list of examples that would show a pattern….. from your master whom you love with all your heart, should we ponder…..but does this constitute command?
If you really Desire God, with all your heart, would you consider it, optional wisdom? Or would you as a loving servant say, “Master, I wasn’t sure, but I did what I thought would be pleasing to you.”
We, for the most part, do not understand how vast and broad the first commandment is.
Christian liberty is real! And has a place. It should not be driving the bus.
continued....
Proverbs says about a wife who loves her husband… “that his heart trusts safely in her” so she is out doing business transactions left and right and he safely trusts in her. My wife pays attention to me and will do things for me or in my place and nails it most of the time and can say …” I knew you would like that” If she was concerned that her “growth as a women” was being stunted, or wondering if she is missing out on “Liberty” by being focused on her husband she would instead say…” I just did what I, thought was best.”
We are the bride of Christ, no?
I recently noted that we are to have the mind of Christ and take every thought captive as servants etc etc. Additionally consider:…
If you understand that you have been bought and paid for…if you realize that you are no longer your own…if you are now a bondservant like James, Paul and John…if you want to do your masters will because you love him and owe him everything, including your next breath…If you want to be like Jesus, doing only what he see’s the father doing and saying only what the father says….if you are trying to study the ways of God so that you can be a good servant … then when you come upon ….a list of examples that would show a pattern….. from your master whom you love with all your heart, should we ponder…..but does this constitute command?
If you really Desire God, with all your heart, would you consider it, optional wisdom? Or would you as a loving servant say, “Master, I wasn’t sure, but I did what I thought would be pleasing to you.”
We, for the most part, do not understand how vast and broad the first commandment is.
Christian liberty is real! And has a place. It should not be driving the bus.
continued....
each one should be fully convinced in his own mind
How does Romans 14 and its Verse 5 "each one should be fully convinced in his own mind." format or change how churchs should be ordered.Family integrated or any old which way as people may prefer?
This will be one of three emails to keep it smaller and make it easier. All three emails form the completed responce.
We have not been asking questions and we need to. This is thrown out to think over, Amen!
First thing.....This passage is about food. Did God intend for what is said here, about food, ( and days) to then be applied and even override clear instruction elsewhere?
We only have to go to chpt 15 to see Paul say...... Now I myself am confident concerning you, my brethren, that you also are full of goodness, filled with all knowledge, able also to admonish one another. 15 Nevertheless, brethren, I have written more boldly to you on some points, as reminding you, because of the grace given to me by God Romans 15:14-15
On the area of food Paul says...." each one should be fully convinced in his own mind..." But he is in other areas admonishing and writing more boldly and in those cases he is not saying .....each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. I noticed that the preceding chapters are totally devoid of any notion of .... each one should be fully convinced in his own mind...
The church at large has taken this.... each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.... and made it the standard De jour for everything! It is a contextual mugging of scripture. This is a lynchpin verse for a lot of "liberty in Christ" which neuters what you said.....We are also restored to our proper position as servants of the Most High God.
Voddies intro talk at Heritage, ( download it!) where he uses Titus to show that there is just oodles of direction given, concerning discipling and body life, that runs crossgrain to our modernist individual way we see things. God left lots of directions for His servants, how else can they serve their master? Between the convention itself and on Sunday Voddie, whether in the body of his talks, but especially during the question and answer portions, pretty much demolished, (with exegetical skill that was a delight to watch) the notion that the God is silent on what he wants going on in the family, education and the Church, by His servants.
Showing just how much biblical principle must be ignored, so that most of the modern Chuch can stand on the neutral island and say....each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.....on these issues.
The same Paul; who in Romans 12:18 said.... If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men. Also says in Romans 16:17 ... Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them. (division over doctines?) This will take judgment and discernment ( gasp)
To be continued..
This will be one of three emails to keep it smaller and make it easier. All three emails form the completed responce.
We have not been asking questions and we need to. This is thrown out to think over, Amen!
First thing.....This passage is about food. Did God intend for what is said here, about food, ( and days) to then be applied and even override clear instruction elsewhere?
We only have to go to chpt 15 to see Paul say...... Now I myself am confident concerning you, my brethren, that you also are full of goodness, filled with all knowledge, able also to admonish one another. 15 Nevertheless, brethren, I have written more boldly to you on some points, as reminding you, because of the grace given to me by God Romans 15:14-15
On the area of food Paul says...." each one should be fully convinced in his own mind..." But he is in other areas admonishing and writing more boldly and in those cases he is not saying .....each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. I noticed that the preceding chapters are totally devoid of any notion of .... each one should be fully convinced in his own mind...
The church at large has taken this.... each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.... and made it the standard De jour for everything! It is a contextual mugging of scripture. This is a lynchpin verse for a lot of "liberty in Christ" which neuters what you said.....We are also restored to our proper position as servants of the Most High God.
Voddies intro talk at Heritage, ( download it!) where he uses Titus to show that there is just oodles of direction given, concerning discipling and body life, that runs crossgrain to our modernist individual way we see things. God left lots of directions for His servants, how else can they serve their master? Between the convention itself and on Sunday Voddie, whether in the body of his talks, but especially during the question and answer portions, pretty much demolished, (with exegetical skill that was a delight to watch) the notion that the God is silent on what he wants going on in the family, education and the Church, by His servants.
Showing just how much biblical principle must be ignored, so that most of the modern Chuch can stand on the neutral island and say....each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.....on these issues.
The same Paul; who in Romans 12:18 said.... If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men. Also says in Romans 16:17 ... Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them. (division over doctines?) This will take judgment and discernment ( gasp)
To be continued..
We are not, part of a mystery religion
While watching an old PBS series on “The West” they talked of how the Indians would go off for a week of intense spiritual introspection and when they would have a vision, they would come back and tell everyone what their name now is, on the basis of what they had been impressed with. I am now to be called “broken stick” or “arrow in the head” or” two for the price of one.” They stressed the point that no one could disagree with them because, only they, had had the vision. My wife and I looked at each other and said, it’s the church.
The standard has become, what too many think, and not what the word says.
When Voddie spoke at Heritage, he talked of how our modernist concept of love that is at odds with Gods word. How there was no confusion over gender roles until after the communist manifesto and its egalitarian viewpoint came on the scene and how except for the last 100yrs, church services were done in the same manner as they had been since the apostles days. The family was together.
There is this women Elder who cannot stand Doug Wilson and I heard her in a debate with Wilson keep saying, “…those scriptures that are the plainest sounding, you have to be the most careful with them.” Upon hearing Wilson make a point about Jesus that was clearly from the word she quickly and strongly pointed out “…that’s not the Jesus I know….” Not because of something else the word says…she just knew, Jesus cannot be like that!
Western thought, Humanism. Overman in his Assumptions book said that the Greeks started with what they thought, and reasoned in their minds to their conclusions. (like Eve did) The Hebrews were supposed to start with what God has said in his word. His word should also be the primary dictionary of the terms we use. If His word is the starting point and we use His definitions, the result of our thinking, done rightly, will be in harmony with His word and with Him.
Heb 11:6 …He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him.
Jesus. Do you really want to know Him? Do you really, really want to be in Him? Will intense worship and praise cause you to abide in him? What will? How do you know?
Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 1 John 2:3-5
You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. John 5:39 His word speaks of Him. Justice , mercy, righteousness, loving kindess etc. We are finite and he is infinite, and at the very best, we will only vaguely see him. It is from his revealed word that we will know him, because that is how he has chosen to reveal himself to us. Wilson at the Piper conference spoke of this. May we become a people after his own heart, may we say that we know and walk in his ways.
Calvin Wrote while urging obedience to God’s commands…”Let us remember this lesson:That to worship our God sincerely we must evermore begin by hearkening to His voice, and by giving ear to what He commands us. For if everyman goes after his own way, we shall wander. We may well run, but we shall never be a wit nearer to the right way, but rather farther from it” From his sermon “Separation unto blessing” Duet 28:9-14
The standard has become, what too many think, and not what the word says.
When Voddie spoke at Heritage, he talked of how our modernist concept of love that is at odds with Gods word. How there was no confusion over gender roles until after the communist manifesto and its egalitarian viewpoint came on the scene and how except for the last 100yrs, church services were done in the same manner as they had been since the apostles days. The family was together.
There is this women Elder who cannot stand Doug Wilson and I heard her in a debate with Wilson keep saying, “…those scriptures that are the plainest sounding, you have to be the most careful with them.” Upon hearing Wilson make a point about Jesus that was clearly from the word she quickly and strongly pointed out “…that’s not the Jesus I know….” Not because of something else the word says…she just knew, Jesus cannot be like that!
Western thought, Humanism. Overman in his Assumptions book said that the Greeks started with what they thought, and reasoned in their minds to their conclusions. (like Eve did) The Hebrews were supposed to start with what God has said in his word. His word should also be the primary dictionary of the terms we use. If His word is the starting point and we use His definitions, the result of our thinking, done rightly, will be in harmony with His word and with Him.
Heb 11:6 …He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him.
Jesus. Do you really want to know Him? Do you really, really want to be in Him? Will intense worship and praise cause you to abide in him? What will? How do you know?
Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 1 John 2:3-5
You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. John 5:39 His word speaks of Him. Justice , mercy, righteousness, loving kindess etc. We are finite and he is infinite, and at the very best, we will only vaguely see him. It is from his revealed word that we will know him, because that is how he has chosen to reveal himself to us. Wilson at the Piper conference spoke of this. May we become a people after his own heart, may we say that we know and walk in his ways.
Calvin Wrote while urging obedience to God’s commands…”Let us remember this lesson:That to worship our God sincerely we must evermore begin by hearkening to His voice, and by giving ear to what He commands us. For if everyman goes after his own way, we shall wander. We may well run, but we shall never be a wit nearer to the right way, but rather farther from it” From his sermon “Separation unto blessing” Duet 28:9-14
God is so good!
Just another awesome time at the fellowship today! As I leave our worship times with what seems like heaping Costco sized shopping carts of His truth more weeks than not. I think back to one church we left at the same time the pastor made known his intention to turn, Sunday morning service, into a "six items or less express line"
Spirtually, its like my two year old son, after he has been playing in the dirt, its all over his face, lips, and all down the front of him, with the biggest grin.You dont expect to get it all down as it comes out of the fire hose. But it is so fun and glorious to try! As Nathan would say..."Daddy, lets do dat a gen!
This is a comforting verse to me. But Jesus said to him, "Follow Me, and let the dead bury their own dead." Matt 8:22
Spirtually, its like my two year old son, after he has been playing in the dirt, its all over his face, lips, and all down the front of him, with the biggest grin.You dont expect to get it all down as it comes out of the fire hose. But it is so fun and glorious to try! As Nathan would say..."Daddy, lets do dat a gen!
This is a comforting verse to me. But Jesus said to him, "Follow Me, and let the dead bury their own dead." Matt 8:22
“Precious Moments” bible
These things you have done, and I kept silent; You thought that I was altogether like you; But I will rebuke you, And set them in order before your eyes. Psalms 50:21
The Lord knows the thoughts of man, That they are futile. Psalms 94:11
My wife has been doing the facebook thing. She is making contact with old church friends from 20 yrs ago. So she now gets the stream of comments everyday on what people are saying. Horrors!
Its like a spoof on the old Saturday Night Live skit, that they would call “Deep thoughts” My impression has been that everyone is now using a Thomas Nelson “Precious Moments” bible and rather than even quoting poorly translated scripture is instead preferring to quote the captions below the illustrations that are interspersed throughout the book. “take time to let God love you today”
Beth is trying to carefully ask questions back to some, you know, stuff like…”what do you mean by that?” But there are issues where she can see a desperate need to try and speak the truth that is missing. It is crossing my mind on how frustrating it will be at times to try to communicate what we are seeing from Gods word now, to many old friends. Much of my core vocabulary will be meaningless!?!
The standard truly is…”well, I believe…” We are thinking back at so many of the Christian fables we sucked up. Beth remembers this one… “Well you know, the women of Corinth were just so pushy and that’s why Paul wrote that. It only applied to them.” My wife now would respond….” And we women today are not, like that?”
Never ever once did it cross our minds to stop and ask anyone, let alone the pastors, “can you show me where the word says that?” or “Where does this come from scripture?”
It really would be easier to talk with someone from the 1600’s than it is to many modern believers. At least I wouldn’t have to argue that the Word is the standard except with some papist or maybe an Anabaptist. (Wilson once made a comment about the Anabaptists that makes me think they would fit right in today…..”Sheriff the Anabaptists are running naked through the grocery store again…”)
"But My people would not heed My voice, And Israel would have none of Me. 12 So I gave them over to their own stubborn heart, To walk in their own counsels. Psalms 81:11-12
Gods grace. He will do it. He cracked open our stony hearts and he will do it for others. All nations whom You have made Shall come and worship before You, O Lord, And shall glorify Your name. Psalms 86:9 It is going to happen someday. I will believe what his word says and keep repeating it. It is easier to stop the tide, then to stop what God has said He will do.
The Lord knows the thoughts of man, That they are futile. Psalms 94:11
My wife has been doing the facebook thing. She is making contact with old church friends from 20 yrs ago. So she now gets the stream of comments everyday on what people are saying. Horrors!
Its like a spoof on the old Saturday Night Live skit, that they would call “Deep thoughts” My impression has been that everyone is now using a Thomas Nelson “Precious Moments” bible and rather than even quoting poorly translated scripture is instead preferring to quote the captions below the illustrations that are interspersed throughout the book. “take time to let God love you today”
Beth is trying to carefully ask questions back to some, you know, stuff like…”what do you mean by that?” But there are issues where she can see a desperate need to try and speak the truth that is missing. It is crossing my mind on how frustrating it will be at times to try to communicate what we are seeing from Gods word now, to many old friends. Much of my core vocabulary will be meaningless!?!
The standard truly is…”well, I believe…” We are thinking back at so many of the Christian fables we sucked up. Beth remembers this one… “Well you know, the women of Corinth were just so pushy and that’s why Paul wrote that. It only applied to them.” My wife now would respond….” And we women today are not, like that?”
Never ever once did it cross our minds to stop and ask anyone, let alone the pastors, “can you show me where the word says that?” or “Where does this come from scripture?”
It really would be easier to talk with someone from the 1600’s than it is to many modern believers. At least I wouldn’t have to argue that the Word is the standard except with some papist or maybe an Anabaptist. (Wilson once made a comment about the Anabaptists that makes me think they would fit right in today…..”Sheriff the Anabaptists are running naked through the grocery store again…”)
"But My people would not heed My voice, And Israel would have none of Me. 12 So I gave them over to their own stubborn heart, To walk in their own counsels. Psalms 81:11-12
Gods grace. He will do it. He cracked open our stony hearts and he will do it for others. All nations whom You have made Shall come and worship before You, O Lord, And shall glorify Your name. Psalms 86:9 It is going to happen someday. I will believe what his word says and keep repeating it. It is easier to stop the tide, then to stop what God has said He will do.
a wheenie Christian faith that has had minor visible impact
Continuing to think about culture. Nobody have a cow, more thinking out loud. Like playdo, stick your fingers in it and work it around.
For all those times you heard someone say that, well such and such, that was cultural. Every time you hear a Christian say this about something, it is probably always predicated on the assumption that culture itself is neutral. Culture just kind of happens and doesn’t really mean anything.
But culture is one of the payoffs of a faith. ...go disciple the nations. It is the fruit made manifest. You will see how well that a god is honored in the society by the degree to which his word has influence. All cultures are religous to the core. Education is one of the most religous things a culture does.
For the humanist, his faith extends to everything. This is not because humanism has a more demanding god. The humanist is just more consisitant with his fath, since it is in sync with his nature. For us christians, our natures, that which seems normal, is at odds with the ways of God. I am convinced the sanctification process is partly a derivative of how we are discipled. How many of us were discipled? Actually we all were discipled, maybe only poorly.
We are used to a wheenie Christian faith that has had minor visible impact on most Christians, let alone the society around us. This leads to an understanding of Christian liberty that seems ubiquitous, because I think, Gods word is being limited.
I had never really thought through my idea of Christian liberty and compared it to the word until last month. It’s the pitts. At some point I should get used to this.
It is helping me by first seeing the framework for life that God established for us from the word. ( more on this later) Christian liberty will have its place inside the framework. Today it is used for the most part, outside of the framework, as a wild card that needs to be played, because we don’t see the framework.
Modern Christianity has believed that, we must turn away from bad stuff. But without Gods Law, without giving Him His sovereignty, without using all of scripture we turn away, and by default embrace a lot of things that we think are benign.
Rob has his finger paints out and is trying to illustrate it as he can see it. We all need to put on our art smocks and catch more vision.
…taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ. 2Cor10:5 If we take every thought captive...how much Christian Liberty will there be? Who is the thinking supposed to be captive to? Is it the norm for us to think in terms of ....taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ ..resulting in Christian liberty, or obedience to Christ?
We need to think about it.
…This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as the rest of the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind… And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God…. which is your reasonable service…we are called to,.. know His will, and approve the things that are excellent, being instructed out of the law,..lest you should be wise in your own opinion, rather… casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ …. that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head--Christ-- Eph 4:17 ,Romans 12:2, Romans 12:1, Romans 2:18 Romans 11:25, 2 Cor 10:5, Eph 4:14-15
I believe I have kept the integrity of the scripture in this run on sentence. All these scripture speak of purpose, deliberateness. If we really look, and meditate about it, does the word suggest we should find way more direction than we usually do? It will always come back to His word. What sayeth the scripture?
Yes there is Christian liberty, just not, as it has been taken for granted.
Swanson had a couple of shows where he lamented at the weekness of our young men. The reason for that would be us fathers. Rats. These talks speak of the foundational building blocks that are part of forming a Christian culture.
Salvaging civilization In this first talk towards the end, he gives the name of what he calls his most important sermon he has ever given. Its on raising sons.
This second talk is a conversation about raising sons too. Raising real men
For all those times you heard someone say that, well such and such, that was cultural. Every time you hear a Christian say this about something, it is probably always predicated on the assumption that culture itself is neutral. Culture just kind of happens and doesn’t really mean anything.
But culture is one of the payoffs of a faith. ...go disciple the nations. It is the fruit made manifest. You will see how well that a god is honored in the society by the degree to which his word has influence. All cultures are religous to the core. Education is one of the most religous things a culture does.
For the humanist, his faith extends to everything. This is not because humanism has a more demanding god. The humanist is just more consisitant with his fath, since it is in sync with his nature. For us christians, our natures, that which seems normal, is at odds with the ways of God. I am convinced the sanctification process is partly a derivative of how we are discipled. How many of us were discipled? Actually we all were discipled, maybe only poorly.
We are used to a wheenie Christian faith that has had minor visible impact on most Christians, let alone the society around us. This leads to an understanding of Christian liberty that seems ubiquitous, because I think, Gods word is being limited.
I had never really thought through my idea of Christian liberty and compared it to the word until last month. It’s the pitts. At some point I should get used to this.
It is helping me by first seeing the framework for life that God established for us from the word. ( more on this later) Christian liberty will have its place inside the framework. Today it is used for the most part, outside of the framework, as a wild card that needs to be played, because we don’t see the framework.
Modern Christianity has believed that, we must turn away from bad stuff. But without Gods Law, without giving Him His sovereignty, without using all of scripture we turn away, and by default embrace a lot of things that we think are benign.
Rob has his finger paints out and is trying to illustrate it as he can see it. We all need to put on our art smocks and catch more vision.
…taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ. 2Cor10:5 If we take every thought captive...how much Christian Liberty will there be? Who is the thinking supposed to be captive to? Is it the norm for us to think in terms of ....taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ ..resulting in Christian liberty, or obedience to Christ?
We need to think about it.
…This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as the rest of the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind… And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God…. which is your reasonable service…we are called to,.. know His will, and approve the things that are excellent, being instructed out of the law,..lest you should be wise in your own opinion, rather… casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ …. that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head--Christ-- Eph 4:17 ,Romans 12:2, Romans 12:1, Romans 2:18 Romans 11:25, 2 Cor 10:5, Eph 4:14-15
I believe I have kept the integrity of the scripture in this run on sentence. All these scripture speak of purpose, deliberateness. If we really look, and meditate about it, does the word suggest we should find way more direction than we usually do? It will always come back to His word. What sayeth the scripture?
Yes there is Christian liberty, just not, as it has been taken for granted.
Swanson had a couple of shows where he lamented at the weekness of our young men. The reason for that would be us fathers. Rats. These talks speak of the foundational building blocks that are part of forming a Christian culture.
Salvaging civilization In this first talk towards the end, he gives the name of what he calls his most important sermon he has ever given. Its on raising sons.
This second talk is a conversation about raising sons too. Raising real men
What we turn to, is every bit as important as what we turn away from.
Too many pastors have denied that Christianity has a form or substance with a nature that would result in impacting 100% of our lives. This is reinforced by most of the music consumed by believers. This is doctrine that comes out of the pulpits and our music. It might be bad and or weak doctrine, but it is doctrine.
Urging a repentance away from success climbing at the expense of your family. But puts forward embracing a basic American family centered humanism, as to what we should be doing.
Rob mentioned Sunday how you can have a movie that has had the swearing taken out of it, but the new technology that did that trick, leaves in place the humanistic worldviews that can be far more dangerous and evil than any foul language. No, that doesn’t mean we will accept the foul language if we can have a decent world view. We want every thought captive thank you. It is what our master calls for!
We like to emphasize strength and dignity to Jamie and Kayla…”did that demonstrate strength and dignity?”.... from proverbs 31.
I like to point out when ever I think about it, what Gods word says about news items or things heard on the radio or in some video we watch...
“that’s stealing…”
“that’s tyranny…”
“She is an older women, we should honor her…”
“that denies Gods Lordship”…
“what does God say about this?….”
“this person denies there is a God, he’s a fool…”
“That’s stepping on the families jurisdiction…”
“ that women has a beard…”
As you are saying Rob , we need to color in the picture for our families. ( to say nothing of us) What we turn to, is every bit as important as what we turn away from. It’s a narrow path we are called to. Not for our righteousness sake, but because that is a part of taking every thought captive, for his own glory. For his kingdom.
Urging a repentance away from success climbing at the expense of your family. But puts forward embracing a basic American family centered humanism, as to what we should be doing.
Rob mentioned Sunday how you can have a movie that has had the swearing taken out of it, but the new technology that did that trick, leaves in place the humanistic worldviews that can be far more dangerous and evil than any foul language. No, that doesn’t mean we will accept the foul language if we can have a decent world view. We want every thought captive thank you. It is what our master calls for!
We like to emphasize strength and dignity to Jamie and Kayla…”did that demonstrate strength and dignity?”.... from proverbs 31.
I like to point out when ever I think about it, what Gods word says about news items or things heard on the radio or in some video we watch...
“that’s stealing…”
“that’s tyranny…”
“She is an older women, we should honor her…”
“that denies Gods Lordship”…
“what does God say about this?….”
“this person denies there is a God, he’s a fool…”
“That’s stepping on the families jurisdiction…”
“ that women has a beard…”
As you are saying Rob , we need to color in the picture for our families. ( to say nothing of us) What we turn to, is every bit as important as what we turn away from. It’s a narrow path we are called to. Not for our righteousness sake, but because that is a part of taking every thought captive, for his own glory. For his kingdom.
Assumptions, Greek vs Hebrew
In the last few weeks I worked on two cars that belonged to Christians and both had their radios turned to “K love” I think.
As I listened it occurred to me it was like listening to my Alma Mater. I received a graduate degree from all the contemporary Christian music I listened to. Doctrines were layed down all over the place without it ever being pointed out that doctrinal statements were even being made. Most listeners would deny that layer after layer of doctrine is being catechized into the listener.
Using music that touches the emotions, with song after song all reinforcing certain basic assumptions is a very effective way to teach. Things that had been assumed, not necessarily drawn from Gods word. But it was unthinkable that elements were not correct or other more important and foundational doctrines might be missing. We all had the holy spirit, we loved God and each other, we all were Christians. For many modern Christians, you go messing with the doctrines of ”K love” and sparks will fly!
Recently I have been paying attention to four areas, and surprisingly, how they overlap. One is the fear of God as depicted in the NT. Another is how the NT describes Christians, how it labels, even defines us, and comparing that with how most American Christians have been trained to see ourselves. The third one is the modern conception of Christian Liberty and how it collides with some basic NT life framework that was emplaced by God. The fourth area is how does God in the NT reveal himself to us, and how have the great church fathers described their walk with God. Augustine, Luther, Calvin, Knox etc
Paul Washer noted the difference in how WE emphasize and how Hebraic writers would emphasize. Repeating, for emphasis.
The following is from Christian Overman ( a student of Francis Schaeffer) from his book “Assumptions that affect our lives” In this book he tried to help us modernists see how our thinking can be so different from biblical thinking.
From pg10,11 he constructs a romantic scene at a wedding ceremony where the Groom says to the bride…”My darling your belly is like a heap of wheat” and the bride responds, ”oh my love you say the kindest things!” (I know, I know, some of you are saying hey Dave we have wives and kids reading some of these…..) Try it on your wives men, they will melt like butter, no?
Overman points out that it sounds strange to us but not to Solomon 3000 yrs ago. We have been taught to think in greek fashion, ….photographic impressions…a primary emphasis is placed on how things are experience by the human eye…..in their literature (Greek) you will often find vivid images, full of color and detail, like a motion picture. The ocean is described as as “wine-blue water” for example and the story of the Odysseus building his raft describes him trimming tall trees with a bronze ax having an olive wood handle and using a chalk line to to plain the planks truly straight.
For the Hebrews, on the other hand, what is of primary concern is the essence of things. For them content came first while external form came second.
He gives the example of Noahs Ark, how no description other than bare facts are given. Three levels, width, length, height , type of wood…The essence of the matter is, this boat is big, sea worthy, and fully functioning... But no visual detail, was the roof flat or sloped, gentle or steep, no description of the tools, what color was the flood waters, etc.
…four gospel accounts of the life of Christ , not one author provides a physical description of Jesus. Think about this for a moment. If you had written one of the gospels yourself, wouldn’t you have given at least a brief description of the Lords physical attributes? The fact is we don’t even know if he was tall or short. Yet we have a craving to know how he appeared, as evidenced by the many paintings of Christ our various artists have done,…..
The primary focus of attention upon Jesus in the bible is on his thought, speech and interaction with others. The essence of his being is the focal point. His internal qualities rather than his external shape. His content rather than his “form.” ….
So back to Solomon and his bride description, we can see its about her essence and that he is communicating the…. hope of bearing many children…. something of great value….
Just another aspect to be aware of.
As I listened it occurred to me it was like listening to my Alma Mater. I received a graduate degree from all the contemporary Christian music I listened to. Doctrines were layed down all over the place without it ever being pointed out that doctrinal statements were even being made. Most listeners would deny that layer after layer of doctrine is being catechized into the listener.
Using music that touches the emotions, with song after song all reinforcing certain basic assumptions is a very effective way to teach. Things that had been assumed, not necessarily drawn from Gods word. But it was unthinkable that elements were not correct or other more important and foundational doctrines might be missing. We all had the holy spirit, we loved God and each other, we all were Christians. For many modern Christians, you go messing with the doctrines of ”K love” and sparks will fly!
Recently I have been paying attention to four areas, and surprisingly, how they overlap. One is the fear of God as depicted in the NT. Another is how the NT describes Christians, how it labels, even defines us, and comparing that with how most American Christians have been trained to see ourselves. The third one is the modern conception of Christian Liberty and how it collides with some basic NT life framework that was emplaced by God. The fourth area is how does God in the NT reveal himself to us, and how have the great church fathers described their walk with God. Augustine, Luther, Calvin, Knox etc
Paul Washer noted the difference in how WE emphasize and how Hebraic writers would emphasize. Repeating, for emphasis.
The following is from Christian Overman ( a student of Francis Schaeffer) from his book “Assumptions that affect our lives” In this book he tried to help us modernists see how our thinking can be so different from biblical thinking.
From pg10,11 he constructs a romantic scene at a wedding ceremony where the Groom says to the bride…”My darling your belly is like a heap of wheat” and the bride responds, ”oh my love you say the kindest things!” (I know, I know, some of you are saying hey Dave we have wives and kids reading some of these…..) Try it on your wives men, they will melt like butter, no?
Overman points out that it sounds strange to us but not to Solomon 3000 yrs ago. We have been taught to think in greek fashion, ….photographic impressions…a primary emphasis is placed on how things are experience by the human eye…..in their literature (Greek) you will often find vivid images, full of color and detail, like a motion picture. The ocean is described as as “wine-blue water” for example and the story of the Odysseus building his raft describes him trimming tall trees with a bronze ax having an olive wood handle and using a chalk line to to plain the planks truly straight.
For the Hebrews, on the other hand, what is of primary concern is the essence of things. For them content came first while external form came second.
He gives the example of Noahs Ark, how no description other than bare facts are given. Three levels, width, length, height , type of wood…The essence of the matter is, this boat is big, sea worthy, and fully functioning... But no visual detail, was the roof flat or sloped, gentle or steep, no description of the tools, what color was the flood waters, etc.
…four gospel accounts of the life of Christ , not one author provides a physical description of Jesus. Think about this for a moment. If you had written one of the gospels yourself, wouldn’t you have given at least a brief description of the Lords physical attributes? The fact is we don’t even know if he was tall or short. Yet we have a craving to know how he appeared, as evidenced by the many paintings of Christ our various artists have done,…..
The primary focus of attention upon Jesus in the bible is on his thought, speech and interaction with others. The essence of his being is the focal point. His internal qualities rather than his external shape. His content rather than his “form.” ….
So back to Solomon and his bride description, we can see its about her essence and that he is communicating the…. hope of bearing many children…. something of great value….
Just another aspect to be aware of.
Repeat to Emphasize
I was thinking that Paul Washer would have been just loved, praised, for his message on missions from my previous church’s I attended. But the very same people would be apoplectic hearing his message to the youth group.
He pointed out in his youth message that the Hebrew way to emphasize something is different than what we do today, We capitalize, put it in bold, etc. He said the Hebrew way was to repeat something. My wife noted the line of Holy, Holy, Holy.
Psalms 119 is the 300lb gorilla of this style. It’s the equivalent of size 72 font, highlighted. One long love song about the beauty of Gods law. 150 plus verses, over and over from one angle after another. And why not, since it reveals and reflects the nature and character of God, throwing down the gauntlet and laying out the standard defining what is, justice, mercy and love. The fact that no other chapter comes even close to the emphasizing job done here says something. Or is it just a fluke?
You have Deuteronomy which means the second telling of the law.
We get four different gospels. Was fun to think about what keeps getting repeated.
Today for the first time it registered in my mind, what Paul is saying here in Acts…. But this I confess to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect, so I worship the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets. Acts 24:14 (NKJV)
… believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets.
Here Paul is saying that…. believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets… Was a part of the early church’s understanding, a doctrine, as understood by the sect called…. the Way.
Mr. Washer pointed out to the youth, that a common understanding believed by them, cannot be found in the bible. On the flip side, the church today needs to come to grip with things, that are in the bible . What sayeth the scriptures?
He pointed out in his youth message that the Hebrew way to emphasize something is different than what we do today, We capitalize, put it in bold, etc. He said the Hebrew way was to repeat something. My wife noted the line of Holy, Holy, Holy.
Psalms 119 is the 300lb gorilla of this style. It’s the equivalent of size 72 font, highlighted. One long love song about the beauty of Gods law. 150 plus verses, over and over from one angle after another. And why not, since it reveals and reflects the nature and character of God, throwing down the gauntlet and laying out the standard defining what is, justice, mercy and love. The fact that no other chapter comes even close to the emphasizing job done here says something. Or is it just a fluke?
You have Deuteronomy which means the second telling of the law.
We get four different gospels. Was fun to think about what keeps getting repeated.
Today for the first time it registered in my mind, what Paul is saying here in Acts…. But this I confess to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect, so I worship the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets. Acts 24:14 (NKJV)
… believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets.
Here Paul is saying that…. believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets… Was a part of the early church’s understanding, a doctrine, as understood by the sect called…. the Way.
Mr. Washer pointed out to the youth, that a common understanding believed by them, cannot be found in the bible. On the flip side, the church today needs to come to grip with things, that are in the bible . What sayeth the scriptures?
That Tatto Thing
I enjoy that Wilson helps me to see how scripture casts long shadows that soon touch everything. In manners that are not obvious to those who don’t want to surrender to God. I am talking about Christians. Sanctification comes with a “to go” bag. You will not get it all before leaving the restaurant. We spend a lifetime being transformed.
The first one is linked to his wife’s blog and some of the weeping and wailing there on this topic.
Like Jello on a Plate
Unleashing Your Inner Fundamentalist ….she wants to be modest and discrete. She is not trying to achieve an effect that the Bible never urges women to strive for, as in "edgy." Or "provocative, but not too skanky for an evangelical."….
Night Shift at the Flying J
....this might be an illustration of what Pastor Wilson is saying: My brother used to be one of the worship leaders at Mars Hill in downtown Seattle. When our family visited we saw people of all kinds, with all sorts of tatoos and piercings and dressed every which way. From what we could tell all were very nice and wanting to know more of God. But a mother came in during the service with her four small children and a baby in her arms. Her face was free from any markings, no piercings, and she was dressed simply but pretty. The peace about her demeanor was striking. Emily ( from the comments section)
Triangles Don't Have Outliers
But let him who glories glory in this, That he understands and knows Me, That I am the Lord, exercising lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness in the earth. For in these I delight," says the Lord. Jer 9:24
The first one is linked to his wife’s blog and some of the weeping and wailing there on this topic.
Like Jello on a Plate
Unleashing Your Inner Fundamentalist ….she wants to be modest and discrete. She is not trying to achieve an effect that the Bible never urges women to strive for, as in "edgy." Or "provocative, but not too skanky for an evangelical."….
Night Shift at the Flying J
....this might be an illustration of what Pastor Wilson is saying: My brother used to be one of the worship leaders at Mars Hill in downtown Seattle. When our family visited we saw people of all kinds, with all sorts of tatoos and piercings and dressed every which way. From what we could tell all were very nice and wanting to know more of God. But a mother came in during the service with her four small children and a baby in her arms. Her face was free from any markings, no piercings, and she was dressed simply but pretty. The peace about her demeanor was striking. Emily ( from the comments section)
Triangles Don't Have Outliers
But let him who glories glory in this, That he understands and knows Me, That I am the Lord, exercising lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness in the earth. For in these I delight," says the Lord. Jer 9:24
Monday, September 28, 2009
Wrong kind of Christianity that's having the influence
The American Vision has had a nice string of articles recently. We have soaked in it so long...
Footnotes or Flowers? By Erich Rauch
...I have claimed previously that modern Christianity has two public faces: highly intellectual (which we have already discussed) and highly anti-intellectual (which we are preparing to discuss). I have also previously recommended that you take a field trip to the local Barnes and Noble bookstore and have a look-see at the religion section to find a representative sample of these two extremes. Now, I recommend that you make another trip, this time to the local Christian bookstore (if your community is lacking one, consider yourself lucky). If you can make it through the store without being choked by the perfumy scents that are inexplicably permeating the air, past the greeting cards, past the music CDs, past the jewelry and breath mints, past the t-shirts, and past the Bible covers and car-bumper ornaments, you will actually find a few books...kind of. At this point, you are literally trapped in the store, so you might as well take a look and wait for one of the ladies that work there to ask if you are looking for anything in particular (they're always ladies and they're always really nice). This is where it gets fun (and sad). Ask for a copy of any of the Christian responses to the New Atheists. Blank stare. Ask for a copy of a conservative commentary on the book of Acts. Another blank stare. Ask for anything by C.S. Lewis and when she brings you the Chronicles of Narnia tell her that you meant one of Lewis' nonfiction works. A really blank stare. Now ask for a copy of Joyce Meyer's newest book and her eyes will light up. She'll take you to a shelf containing every Meyer book written in the last ten years. She'll further tell you that she can order any of the other 453 books that Joyce has written and that she can have them by Friday. At this point you can thank her for her time and walk briskly to the exit, leaving without guilt and any intention of ever returning.
Such is the state of Christian "bookstores," bastions of anti-intellectual drivel and highly emotional, experiential trinkets to encourage you on your "Christian journey." It is this type of nonsense, which is being substituted for biblical Christianity, that is having the "influence" that R.C. Sproul rightly laments. Christianity is influencing America, but it's the wrong kind of Christianity that's having the influence. It is a feminine one. Most Christian bookstores are not designed with men in mind because it is women who do the majority of the buying. It has become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Any man that unwittingly enters a Christian bookstore will quickly find his way out, thinking that he must have entered the Hallmark store instead. This would be funny if it wasn't so serious. The anti-intellectual, public-face of Christianity is a feminized, pastel-colored wall-hanging with a witty saying (maybe even a Bible verse) embroidered on it. It is a religion of feelings and emotions. It has nothing to offer besides happy thoughts. It is an emasculated, man-centered gospel of warm-hearted niceness...just like Grandma's cinnamon rolls....
Footnotes or Flowers? By Erich Rauch
...I have claimed previously that modern Christianity has two public faces: highly intellectual (which we have already discussed) and highly anti-intellectual (which we are preparing to discuss). I have also previously recommended that you take a field trip to the local Barnes and Noble bookstore and have a look-see at the religion section to find a representative sample of these two extremes. Now, I recommend that you make another trip, this time to the local Christian bookstore (if your community is lacking one, consider yourself lucky). If you can make it through the store without being choked by the perfumy scents that are inexplicably permeating the air, past the greeting cards, past the music CDs, past the jewelry and breath mints, past the t-shirts, and past the Bible covers and car-bumper ornaments, you will actually find a few books...kind of. At this point, you are literally trapped in the store, so you might as well take a look and wait for one of the ladies that work there to ask if you are looking for anything in particular (they're always ladies and they're always really nice). This is where it gets fun (and sad). Ask for a copy of any of the Christian responses to the New Atheists. Blank stare. Ask for a copy of a conservative commentary on the book of Acts. Another blank stare. Ask for anything by C.S. Lewis and when she brings you the Chronicles of Narnia tell her that you meant one of Lewis' nonfiction works. A really blank stare. Now ask for a copy of Joyce Meyer's newest book and her eyes will light up. She'll take you to a shelf containing every Meyer book written in the last ten years. She'll further tell you that she can order any of the other 453 books that Joyce has written and that she can have them by Friday. At this point you can thank her for her time and walk briskly to the exit, leaving without guilt and any intention of ever returning.
Such is the state of Christian "bookstores," bastions of anti-intellectual drivel and highly emotional, experiential trinkets to encourage you on your "Christian journey." It is this type of nonsense, which is being substituted for biblical Christianity, that is having the "influence" that R.C. Sproul rightly laments. Christianity is influencing America, but it's the wrong kind of Christianity that's having the influence. It is a feminine one. Most Christian bookstores are not designed with men in mind because it is women who do the majority of the buying. It has become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Any man that unwittingly enters a Christian bookstore will quickly find his way out, thinking that he must have entered the Hallmark store instead. This would be funny if it wasn't so serious. The anti-intellectual, public-face of Christianity is a feminized, pastel-colored wall-hanging with a witty saying (maybe even a Bible verse) embroidered on it. It is a religion of feelings and emotions. It has nothing to offer besides happy thoughts. It is an emasculated, man-centered gospel of warm-hearted niceness...just like Grandma's cinnamon rolls....
Sunday, September 27, 2009
So entrenched in their pietistic mindset
I think these observations are dead on...
Righteousness and Justice Go Together
....Some of the criticism was not very informed, like the comments that I should go there and do it myself: I’ve been there, done that, and I keep doing it. Some of it raised an important objection: We should first preach to save souls, and then hopefully in the future the saved souls will change the culture.
While this objection sounds reasonable, it is unrealistic. In my many years of missionary work I have never seen a convert moving naturally from a personal, pietistic mindset to do culture-changing work. Where new Christians have been evangelized with the truncated gospel of “saving souls” they have never by themselves moved up to challenge the evil practices of their society and its institutions. I takes a new effort of presenting to them the comprehensive message of the Bible in order for them to start practicing it. And by that time they are already so entrenched in their pietistic mindset that it takes almost a new conversion experience to grasp the Biblical worldview....
Righteousness and Justice Go Together
....Some of the criticism was not very informed, like the comments that I should go there and do it myself: I’ve been there, done that, and I keep doing it. Some of it raised an important objection: We should first preach to save souls, and then hopefully in the future the saved souls will change the culture.
While this objection sounds reasonable, it is unrealistic. In my many years of missionary work I have never seen a convert moving naturally from a personal, pietistic mindset to do culture-changing work. Where new Christians have been evangelized with the truncated gospel of “saving souls” they have never by themselves moved up to challenge the evil practices of their society and its institutions. I takes a new effort of presenting to them the comprehensive message of the Bible in order for them to start practicing it. And by that time they are already so entrenched in their pietistic mindset that it takes almost a new conversion experience to grasp the Biblical worldview....
Thursday, September 24, 2009
History and tattoos
A clarification, when I wrote…. The modern church has not had a vision of where she should be going or engaging in. So most of the church , as if connected by gravity, is in a low altitude orbit just above the pagan culture.
I did not mean that they are at this place as an act of rebellion, maybe, maybe not. For the most part they are there as it is completely outside of their worldview to imagine, that there is anyplace else. They have been taken captive. They believe culture itself is neutral. Just like I used to. Talk of Christians submitting to Gods Law does not make sense to most. “that sounds legalistic ,We are free in Christ bro,”…..and the classic….” We just need to love Jesus and one another”
2nd item, to clarify, historical perspective and I am gonna chew with my mouth open, pondering out loud….
If we can see that it is only in the last 100yrs that Christians thought that drinking alcohol was sinful, it should give us pause to stop and think. The Puritans loved their beer and were some of the most joyful people in England. but they were not drunkards. There were resented for it. So, what does Gods word say on this subject?
Christians did not study the word and see that God wants us to split up the family and minister to the individual pieces for his glory. Christian’s did not study their word and come to a biblical conclusion that they should earn as much as they can, and retire as early as they can for Gods glory. Christians did not exegete Gods word and find out that his commandments only pertained to Israel, so God wants the government to decide…. that which is good, and that which is evil. Someone, not using Gods word discipled us.
with an eye on history I wrote….
…..Anywhere in the world that has been pagan, no gospel light shining, those disciples will be tattooed up and will be cutting the flesh, life will have no value etc. Paganism is consistent, it will lead to a death culture. (It is a historical aboration that here, even with the gospel light, believers are being tatted up?!?)
What I am noting is that all through history when Christianity has encountered Pagans and they were converted. The missionaries did not start taking off their clothes, cutting crosses on their bodies and getting tattoos of john 3:16. They understood that culture was not neutral, God defines you as naked, you need to put on clothes, God has ordained only one wife, keep one and let the others remarry. Your body is made in the image of God, stop disfiguring it, you belong to him now. Etc
But For the first time ever in history, Christians think that this behavior has a place as an expression of Christ. Why is that?
Have Christians today, by the light of his Word found out that tattoos or branding with Christian symbolism are something that pleases the Lord? Or is it that they believe, it does not matter to God? Who is discipling who, and are they using the Word?
And thus my noting of……..Douglas Wilson remarked something to the effect that we must bring in the refugees from our culture. But no one should be an apostle for the culture.
Is something good and pleasing to the Lord, because we do it passionately and with all of our strength for him? I submit that there are many, many in that low altitude orbit that believe they are in the center of Gods will because they know that with all their hearts, they just want to please God and reach others for Christ. Is that the standard, the zealousness of our hearts? Is that what God will reward with “well done, good and faithful servant?”
All this said, I still note that History is not the standard either, but God moves through his people providentially, in history. By noting and honoring the faith of our fathers it shows us a path that we can compare to the word, and seek to discern by the word if it’s a path we too, should be on. If we are on a different path, is it because we discerned from the word that “they” mixed up traditions of men into the faith, or is it us who have been influenced by the traditions of men?
At some point I will forward some links to Wilson, over there, they have been deep into the issues of “body art.”
I did not mean that they are at this place as an act of rebellion, maybe, maybe not. For the most part they are there as it is completely outside of their worldview to imagine, that there is anyplace else. They have been taken captive. They believe culture itself is neutral. Just like I used to. Talk of Christians submitting to Gods Law does not make sense to most. “that sounds legalistic ,We are free in Christ bro,”…..and the classic….” We just need to love Jesus and one another”
2nd item, to clarify, historical perspective and I am gonna chew with my mouth open, pondering out loud….
If we can see that it is only in the last 100yrs that Christians thought that drinking alcohol was sinful, it should give us pause to stop and think. The Puritans loved their beer and were some of the most joyful people in England. but they were not drunkards. There were resented for it. So, what does Gods word say on this subject?
Christians did not study the word and see that God wants us to split up the family and minister to the individual pieces for his glory. Christian’s did not study their word and come to a biblical conclusion that they should earn as much as they can, and retire as early as they can for Gods glory. Christians did not exegete Gods word and find out that his commandments only pertained to Israel, so God wants the government to decide…. that which is good, and that which is evil. Someone, not using Gods word discipled us.
with an eye on history I wrote….
…..Anywhere in the world that has been pagan, no gospel light shining, those disciples will be tattooed up and will be cutting the flesh, life will have no value etc. Paganism is consistent, it will lead to a death culture. (It is a historical aboration that here, even with the gospel light, believers are being tatted up?!?)
What I am noting is that all through history when Christianity has encountered Pagans and they were converted. The missionaries did not start taking off their clothes, cutting crosses on their bodies and getting tattoos of john 3:16. They understood that culture was not neutral, God defines you as naked, you need to put on clothes, God has ordained only one wife, keep one and let the others remarry. Your body is made in the image of God, stop disfiguring it, you belong to him now. Etc
But For the first time ever in history, Christians think that this behavior has a place as an expression of Christ. Why is that?
Have Christians today, by the light of his Word found out that tattoos or branding with Christian symbolism are something that pleases the Lord? Or is it that they believe, it does not matter to God? Who is discipling who, and are they using the Word?
And thus my noting of……..Douglas Wilson remarked something to the effect that we must bring in the refugees from our culture. But no one should be an apostle for the culture.
Is something good and pleasing to the Lord, because we do it passionately and with all of our strength for him? I submit that there are many, many in that low altitude orbit that believe they are in the center of Gods will because they know that with all their hearts, they just want to please God and reach others for Christ. Is that the standard, the zealousness of our hearts? Is that what God will reward with “well done, good and faithful servant?”
All this said, I still note that History is not the standard either, but God moves through his people providentially, in history. By noting and honoring the faith of our fathers it shows us a path that we can compare to the word, and seek to discern by the word if it’s a path we too, should be on. If we are on a different path, is it because we discerned from the word that “they” mixed up traditions of men into the faith, or is it us who have been influenced by the traditions of men?
At some point I will forward some links to Wilson, over there, they have been deep into the issues of “body art.”
Shape shifter Christianity
:…love His laws and work to understand their beauty - while at the same time giving grace to those around us working out their faith as we all struggle in different areas. ..
We have to face it, we are acustomed to a Christianity that is almost formless, like a shape shifter from some sci fi movie. We have such a distorted perception, that if we saw someone actually discipling a new believer, would we think, legalism? But this is what we are commanded to do. Paul wrote… The things which you learned and received and heard and saw in me, these do, and the God of peace will be with you. Phil 4:9 It sounds ok on paper, but if you heard an elder speak this way, what would you think?
Unfortunately too many times, when there has been a more solid shape to modern Christianity, it has been from a moralistic tradition of men and not shaped by Gods commandments. This might fit in with Gregs sub points from the other day. Maybe all the ladies with the same hairdo, the men throwing Jesus out on his ear for making wine…"the nerve of that guy..."
Kingdom of God, kingdom of man, both sides will make disciples. Both sides are consistent. But only one side has been consistent with its declared faith. Anywhere in the world that has been pagan, no gospel light shining, those disciples will be tattooed up and will be cutting the flesh, life will have no value etc. Paganism is consistent, it will lead to a death culture. (It is a historical aboration that here,even with the gospel light, believers are being tatted up?!?)
From the Kingdom of God side, we have been about 150 yrs or more minus Gods sovereignty and His Law and that has left us without something to disciple people towards. The new, (or old) typical Christian does not really have his pagan thought process’s disturbed at the core. The modern church has not had a vision of where she should be going or engaging in. So most of the church , as if connected by gravity, is in a low altitude orbit just above the pagan culture. After wanting to see men saved, it quickly becomes a hodge podge commitment to ideas that have half the calories of the world at large. Less filling, but still tastes great.
All this to say, Amen, yes we need to be gracious with those working out their faith, but they should not be told to listen to their hearts. It did not work for Eve. And she was sinless. "The heart is deceitful above all things, And desperately wicked; Who can know it? Jer 17:9
Just like I hope that no one is raising their children this way. We are given clear instructions to raise children to love and fear God, to teach his commandments to them. This is where God has said to start. Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God and keep His commandments, For this is man's all. Eccl 12:13 So it should always be.....What does Gods word say?
At some point new believers need to know that they have some makeup work to do. It might not be the starting place. It is those Christians who have spent a lot of time in the evangelical amusement parks that may have a harder time with it. We all have believed the myth that the law was given so people could try and work out their salvation. (So who wants to touch that failed mess?)
The fact that most believing Christians might respond negatively to Gods Law should not lead us to set it aside or hide it. It is not meant for beating people over the head with either. Even though many of us older believers are scrambling to learn what has been ignored and are now, like my friend, on our hands and knees in the dark trying to find the bullets to put into the gun as the thief is trying to break in.
It is healthy that today, we can read about what the reformation led too. And have speakers from all manner of denominations, and we can hear them paint a picture of Christian culture and we can look at each other and go “hey that’s where we are going!” And it is not into a lower orbit. A common denominator is acknowledging Gods Sovereignty and His law. He is Lord!
We don’t have it all figured out, but what does Gods word say? Lets start there.
Douglas Wilson remarked something to the effect that we must bring in the refugees from our culture. But no one should be an apostle for the culture.
We have to face it, we are acustomed to a Christianity that is almost formless, like a shape shifter from some sci fi movie. We have such a distorted perception, that if we saw someone actually discipling a new believer, would we think, legalism? But this is what we are commanded to do. Paul wrote… The things which you learned and received and heard and saw in me, these do, and the God of peace will be with you. Phil 4:9 It sounds ok on paper, but if you heard an elder speak this way, what would you think?
Unfortunately too many times, when there has been a more solid shape to modern Christianity, it has been from a moralistic tradition of men and not shaped by Gods commandments. This might fit in with Gregs sub points from the other day. Maybe all the ladies with the same hairdo, the men throwing Jesus out on his ear for making wine…"the nerve of that guy..."
Kingdom of God, kingdom of man, both sides will make disciples. Both sides are consistent. But only one side has been consistent with its declared faith. Anywhere in the world that has been pagan, no gospel light shining, those disciples will be tattooed up and will be cutting the flesh, life will have no value etc. Paganism is consistent, it will lead to a death culture. (It is a historical aboration that here,even with the gospel light, believers are being tatted up?!?)
From the Kingdom of God side, we have been about 150 yrs or more minus Gods sovereignty and His Law and that has left us without something to disciple people towards. The new, (or old) typical Christian does not really have his pagan thought process’s disturbed at the core. The modern church has not had a vision of where she should be going or engaging in. So most of the church , as if connected by gravity, is in a low altitude orbit just above the pagan culture. After wanting to see men saved, it quickly becomes a hodge podge commitment to ideas that have half the calories of the world at large. Less filling, but still tastes great.
All this to say, Amen, yes we need to be gracious with those working out their faith, but they should not be told to listen to their hearts. It did not work for Eve. And she was sinless. "The heart is deceitful above all things, And desperately wicked; Who can know it? Jer 17:9
Just like I hope that no one is raising their children this way. We are given clear instructions to raise children to love and fear God, to teach his commandments to them. This is where God has said to start. Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God and keep His commandments, For this is man's all. Eccl 12:13 So it should always be.....What does Gods word say?
At some point new believers need to know that they have some makeup work to do. It might not be the starting place. It is those Christians who have spent a lot of time in the evangelical amusement parks that may have a harder time with it. We all have believed the myth that the law was given so people could try and work out their salvation. (So who wants to touch that failed mess?)
The fact that most believing Christians might respond negatively to Gods Law should not lead us to set it aside or hide it. It is not meant for beating people over the head with either. Even though many of us older believers are scrambling to learn what has been ignored and are now, like my friend, on our hands and knees in the dark trying to find the bullets to put into the gun as the thief is trying to break in.
It is healthy that today, we can read about what the reformation led too. And have speakers from all manner of denominations, and we can hear them paint a picture of Christian culture and we can look at each other and go “hey that’s where we are going!” And it is not into a lower orbit. A common denominator is acknowledging Gods Sovereignty and His law. He is Lord!
We don’t have it all figured out, but what does Gods word say? Lets start there.
Douglas Wilson remarked something to the effect that we must bring in the refugees from our culture. But no one should be an apostle for the culture.
More biblical womenhood
Here is a basic kingdom of heaven principle. Saying no to your flesh in order to harvest a more important result later, as a result of obedience. Dying to yourself.
Same principle, but a different application. Saying no to present consumption in order to accomplish more in the future. Accumulated capital is more likely to occur, when a people have a future oriented perspective.( As a nation we are so present oriented that we have already consumed everything we will produce for the next 3 yrs)
Now, here comes the same principle, but harder to see….
Most of our wives have been through the worlds buffet line with heaping plates filled up with ideas of what it really means to be a women and just what kind of a life is worth living.
So It is always a joy when I read things like this article from Chalcedon By Reginna Seppi Kingdom Driven Daughters (My wife sent around a link to this article last week)
…A wise woman, Proverbs says, builds her house, but the foolish woman tears it down with her own hands. This building not only affects families, but cultures and nations.
..This building not only affects families, but cultures and nations…
Families are the foundation for cultures and nations. This family gets it. These daughters understand that they are building the Kingdom of God, one child at a time, one relationship at a time. What the culture says to them, has no allure. They are not going to be angry at God for how he has ordained life. They are too busy attending to their masters house and taking delight in, what God delights in.
This is the “city of God” being built at a foundational level. If done with present oriented eyes, it can be drudgery. But with future oriented eyes, like the pilgrims, as stepping stones for future generations, one can rest and take glory in being a part of his kingdom, bringing our Lord glory, being faithful in the little things. Though you cannot tangibly hold it, or eat it, it is as real as it gets.
When she said….Our world has no comprehension of this dynamic. That is the understatement of the year.
Like the Botkin daughters book, So Much More.
…This building not only affects families, but cultures and nations….
Whether we build up or tear down, it affects cultures and nations, towards one direction or another.
Like David accumulating as much as he could of all of the supplies for the next generation to do what he couldn’t, build the temple. Future oriented.
The Terror to Triumph DVD series can also help as it is another tool to help a person to see outside themselves and their time period. Its not about you and your salvation and hanging out with Jesus. Its about building His Kingdom for His glory. By design it is a multigenerational task, and we are just stewards, trustees of gifts, talents, children, and families and he expects us to bring him increase. (see any of the talent or mina parables about the kingdom of God) Our children will become trustees of what is passed on to them, this will include a vision for life and different types of capital.
At the very time the humanists should be shouting triumphantly that they succeeded with their government schools in turning the family into self absorbed and frustrated individuals (even within the very church!) God all over this nation is fanning a flame of his design and understanding for families! Yes individuals will be blessed, but that is a secondary side affect that comes from obedience to Gods word. Cultures and then Nations will be discipled. But this cannot happen without our women. Their part is as high of a calling as that any man can have. Technology, the church, teams of specialists , no Washington Department of the family, or even men can take their place.
Good stuff for us, our wives, sons and daughters. The gates of hell cannot stop it, so its best to be obedient and get on board …. For the earth will be filled With the knowledge of the glory of the Lord, As the waters cover the sea. Hab 2:14
This is concerned with an over arching picture and theme, if you just focus on any one thing and go “yeah but….” You will probably be right, but you may miss what it is that I am trying to communicate. We so badly need to see the big picture. We are a part of it. But when understood that our Lord calls each of the trillions and trillions of stars by their name….we can see that it really isn’t about us.
Kingdom Driven Daughters
Same principle, but a different application. Saying no to present consumption in order to accomplish more in the future. Accumulated capital is more likely to occur, when a people have a future oriented perspective.( As a nation we are so present oriented that we have already consumed everything we will produce for the next 3 yrs)
Now, here comes the same principle, but harder to see….
Most of our wives have been through the worlds buffet line with heaping plates filled up with ideas of what it really means to be a women and just what kind of a life is worth living.
So It is always a joy when I read things like this article from Chalcedon By Reginna Seppi Kingdom Driven Daughters (My wife sent around a link to this article last week)
…A wise woman, Proverbs says, builds her house, but the foolish woman tears it down with her own hands. This building not only affects families, but cultures and nations.
..This building not only affects families, but cultures and nations…
Families are the foundation for cultures and nations. This family gets it. These daughters understand that they are building the Kingdom of God, one child at a time, one relationship at a time. What the culture says to them, has no allure. They are not going to be angry at God for how he has ordained life. They are too busy attending to their masters house and taking delight in, what God delights in.
This is the “city of God” being built at a foundational level. If done with present oriented eyes, it can be drudgery. But with future oriented eyes, like the pilgrims, as stepping stones for future generations, one can rest and take glory in being a part of his kingdom, bringing our Lord glory, being faithful in the little things. Though you cannot tangibly hold it, or eat it, it is as real as it gets.
When she said….Our world has no comprehension of this dynamic. That is the understatement of the year.
Like the Botkin daughters book, So Much More.
…This building not only affects families, but cultures and nations….
Whether we build up or tear down, it affects cultures and nations, towards one direction or another.
Like David accumulating as much as he could of all of the supplies for the next generation to do what he couldn’t, build the temple. Future oriented.
The Terror to Triumph DVD series can also help as it is another tool to help a person to see outside themselves and their time period. Its not about you and your salvation and hanging out with Jesus. Its about building His Kingdom for His glory. By design it is a multigenerational task, and we are just stewards, trustees of gifts, talents, children, and families and he expects us to bring him increase. (see any of the talent or mina parables about the kingdom of God) Our children will become trustees of what is passed on to them, this will include a vision for life and different types of capital.
At the very time the humanists should be shouting triumphantly that they succeeded with their government schools in turning the family into self absorbed and frustrated individuals (even within the very church!) God all over this nation is fanning a flame of his design and understanding for families! Yes individuals will be blessed, but that is a secondary side affect that comes from obedience to Gods word. Cultures and then Nations will be discipled. But this cannot happen without our women. Their part is as high of a calling as that any man can have. Technology, the church, teams of specialists , no Washington Department of the family, or even men can take their place.
Good stuff for us, our wives, sons and daughters. The gates of hell cannot stop it, so its best to be obedient and get on board …. For the earth will be filled With the knowledge of the glory of the Lord, As the waters cover the sea. Hab 2:14
This is concerned with an over arching picture and theme, if you just focus on any one thing and go “yeah but….” You will probably be right, but you may miss what it is that I am trying to communicate. We so badly need to see the big picture. We are a part of it. But when understood that our Lord calls each of the trillions and trillions of stars by their name….we can see that it really isn’t about us.
Kingdom Driven Daughters
He meant it
1Cor 6:17 I see the word plainly saying here, and until someone can show me otherwise from the Word, that 1cor7:19 is one more reinforcement of what Jesus layed out to be taught in Deut 6, and then reiterated in the gospels. I did not mean that it is only the OT law, but on what exegetical basis would we say….. it doesn’t include it? One more to put alongside all the others.
Two points.
First point, Paul himself said in the verse… Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters. 1 Cor 7:19
....Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing,..... rituals, ceremonies are not what he is talking about. That’s a given.
Second point
Jesus uses the same Greek word for commandments here, that Paul used in Corinthians…
For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Matt 5:18-19 If you have been called, then you are a soldier in kingdom of heaven. What are you doing & teaching? We are told, you will be called great (doing what?) ….as an encouragement to do it! Maybe even....“well done, good and faithful servant! Side tracked, sorry. Not really.
Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters. 1 Cor 7:19
Can anyone biblically show that God did not mean for Paul to include the OT law as part of keeping the commandments of God, in 1cor6:17? ( this is the same Paul who said…. Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law. Romans 3:31
For giggles. If anyone can do this exegetically, show that these references to the commandments in the NT, do not include the OT commandments, please call Westminster Seminary. They will make you a department chair. Greg Bahnsen was given his docterate by Westminster for making the positive case. Its only 560 pgs long. But he was not hired by them becasue they were did not want to accept it. Their entire faculty spent 14 yrs trying to put together a case that showed he was wrong, and that the Bible didnt mean what it said. They couldn’t do it.
We can be skeptical and be a Berean. But that skeptiscism cannot be equated as being a Berean. You can either show from the word that something is, or you cant.
Two points.
First point, Paul himself said in the verse… Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters. 1 Cor 7:19
....Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing,..... rituals, ceremonies are not what he is talking about. That’s a given.
Second point
Jesus uses the same Greek word for commandments here, that Paul used in Corinthians…
For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Matt 5:18-19 If you have been called, then you are a soldier in kingdom of heaven. What are you doing & teaching? We are told, you will be called great (doing what?) ….as an encouragement to do it! Maybe even....“well done, good and faithful servant! Side tracked, sorry. Not really.
Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters. 1 Cor 7:19
Can anyone biblically show that God did not mean for Paul to include the OT law as part of keeping the commandments of God, in 1cor6:17? ( this is the same Paul who said…. Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law. Romans 3:31
For giggles. If anyone can do this exegetically, show that these references to the commandments in the NT, do not include the OT commandments, please call Westminster Seminary. They will make you a department chair. Greg Bahnsen was given his docterate by Westminster for making the positive case. Its only 560 pgs long. But he was not hired by them becasue they were did not want to accept it. Their entire faculty spent 14 yrs trying to put together a case that showed he was wrong, and that the Bible didnt mean what it said. They couldn’t do it.
We can be skeptical and be a Berean. But that skeptiscism cannot be equated as being a Berean. You can either show from the word that something is, or you cant.
Keeping the commandments
Where did this verse come from? How come I couldn’t see it before? 1cor7:19
Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters. 1 Cor 7:19 (NKJV)
For us who are homeschooling it is another (!) reminder to what God told us was most important concerning education. His law!
Our education should make a distinction , knowing what counts, is more important than, knowing how to count. Some wise man said that.
I was Government schooled and taught to walk…… according to the dictates of their own hearts and after the Baals, which their fathers taught them," Jer 9:14 (NKJV)
This is the default setting in all of our hearts if we are not taught to embrace Gods Law. This by itself should cause all Christians to get their children out of Caesars hands. But we have been firmly taught a new faith, to believe in neutral areas of life.
…Behold, they have rejected the word of the Lord; So what wisdom do they have? Jer 8:9 (NKJV)
Without the holy spirit in dwelling in them , the Israelites were told they could know God…..
...But let him who glories glory in this, That he understands and knows Me, That I am the Lord, exercising lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness in the earth. For in these I delight," says the Lord. Jer 9:24 (NKJV)
In a radio interview I heard the Botkin girls say that when they were 13 they were given Rushdoonys institutes to read. Vol 1 exposits and shows applications of Gods Law in a book that is itself the size of the bible. With His law you can see Gods judgment, and righteousness in the earth it is all a part of him exercising lovingkindness.
Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters. 1 Cor 7:19 (NKJV)
For us who are homeschooling it is another (!) reminder to what God told us was most important concerning education. His law!
Our education should make a distinction , knowing what counts, is more important than, knowing how to count. Some wise man said that.
I was Government schooled and taught to walk…… according to the dictates of their own hearts and after the Baals, which their fathers taught them," Jer 9:14 (NKJV)
This is the default setting in all of our hearts if we are not taught to embrace Gods Law. This by itself should cause all Christians to get their children out of Caesars hands. But we have been firmly taught a new faith, to believe in neutral areas of life.
…Behold, they have rejected the word of the Lord; So what wisdom do they have? Jer 8:9 (NKJV)
Without the holy spirit in dwelling in them , the Israelites were told they could know God…..
...But let him who glories glory in this, That he understands and knows Me, That I am the Lord, exercising lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness in the earth. For in these I delight," says the Lord. Jer 9:24 (NKJV)
In a radio interview I heard the Botkin girls say that when they were 13 they were given Rushdoonys institutes to read. Vol 1 exposits and shows applications of Gods Law in a book that is itself the size of the bible. With His law you can see Gods judgment, and righteousness in the earth it is all a part of him exercising lovingkindness.
Sunday, September 13, 2009
Piercings
Doug Wilson has been doing a number of tattoo and body piercings postings
....I also recognize that the besetting sin of pastoral ministry in America today is under-reaching. And as a result we are rapidly approaching the time when the people of our nation look a lot more like the natives of New Guinea than they used to. A resurgent paganism, presiding over by a Christian ministry taking too much care not to overreach.
....I also recognize that the besetting sin of pastoral ministry in America today is under-reaching. And as a result we are rapidly approaching the time when the people of our nation look a lot more like the natives of New Guinea than they used to. A resurgent paganism, presiding over by a Christian ministry taking too much care not to overreach.
Monday, September 7, 2009
It wasnt always this way
Without God There is No Law by Gary Demar
...But there are millions of Christians who do not believe the Bible addresses the broader world. Over time, Christianity has ceased to be a comprehensive, world-changing religion. “[W]here religion still survives in the modern world, no matter how passionate or ‘committed’ the individual may be, it amounts to little more than a private preference, a spare-time hobby, a leisure pursuit.”[2] Theodore Roszak used an apt phrase to describe much of modern-day Christendom: “Socially irrelevant, even if privately engaging.”[3] It wasn’t always this way:
The Bible, both the Old Testament and the New Testament, comes out of the background of a Hebrew mindset. The basic idea behind the Hebrew mindset is that God and accompanying spiritual principles permeate all of life here on earth. . . . I believe one of the causes of [cultural disengagement is a Greek mindset], which tells us Christians should be concerned about saving souls and going to heaven rather than paying much attention to material things like transforming our societies.
[James Davidson] Hunter, to the contrary says, “Most Christians in history have interpreted the creation mandate in Genesis as a mandate to change the world.”[4]...
All of this was brought to mind the death notice of attorney W. Jack Williamson in World magazine. He was described as “an enthusiastic backer of Christian worldview thinking. He told the story of sitting in late 1973 in the front seat of his car with Francis Schaeffer, discussing the crisis in the church and the devolving state of American culture. ‘Why did you let this happen?’ Schaeffer asked Williamson. ‘What do you mean, why did we let it happen?’ Williamson asked. ‘You’re a lawyer, aren’t you?’ Schaeffer replied pointedly. ‘Why did your profession let things get away so badly?’”
“‘He wasn’t just blaming the legal profession,’ Williamson stressed. ‘He was saying that each of us Christians has a responsibility, not just in our church relationships, but in the specific context of our various vocations, to define issues in a God-centered manner....
...But there are millions of Christians who do not believe the Bible addresses the broader world. Over time, Christianity has ceased to be a comprehensive, world-changing religion. “[W]here religion still survives in the modern world, no matter how passionate or ‘committed’ the individual may be, it amounts to little more than a private preference, a spare-time hobby, a leisure pursuit.”[2] Theodore Roszak used an apt phrase to describe much of modern-day Christendom: “Socially irrelevant, even if privately engaging.”[3] It wasn’t always this way:
The Bible, both the Old Testament and the New Testament, comes out of the background of a Hebrew mindset. The basic idea behind the Hebrew mindset is that God and accompanying spiritual principles permeate all of life here on earth. . . . I believe one of the causes of [cultural disengagement is a Greek mindset], which tells us Christians should be concerned about saving souls and going to heaven rather than paying much attention to material things like transforming our societies.
[James Davidson] Hunter, to the contrary says, “Most Christians in history have interpreted the creation mandate in Genesis as a mandate to change the world.”[4]...
All of this was brought to mind the death notice of attorney W. Jack Williamson in World magazine. He was described as “an enthusiastic backer of Christian worldview thinking. He told the story of sitting in late 1973 in the front seat of his car with Francis Schaeffer, discussing the crisis in the church and the devolving state of American culture. ‘Why did you let this happen?’ Schaeffer asked Williamson. ‘What do you mean, why did we let it happen?’ Williamson asked. ‘You’re a lawyer, aren’t you?’ Schaeffer replied pointedly. ‘Why did your profession let things get away so badly?’”
“‘He wasn’t just blaming the legal profession,’ Williamson stressed. ‘He was saying that each of us Christians has a responsibility, not just in our church relationships, but in the specific context of our various vocations, to define issues in a God-centered manner....
Sunday, September 6, 2009
A religious fact
From Chalcedon The Establishment of Religion
by Christopher J. Ortiz
“Justice or righteousness is moral order and is a religious fact. Laws express views of justice or moral order and are thus an establishment of religion. Laws do not per se establish a church but rather a religion …”1 ~ R. J. Rushdoony
If I were to ask, “What is the chief end of man,” most Reformed Christians would respond with, “to glorify God and enjoy Him forever.” So why are many Reformed Christians opposed to Christian dominion? Wouldn’t it glorify God more to see this world brought into subjection to Christ? Or is Christian piety only a matter of eating and drinking to the glory of God?...
by Christopher J. Ortiz
“Justice or righteousness is moral order and is a religious fact. Laws express views of justice or moral order and are thus an establishment of religion. Laws do not per se establish a church but rather a religion …”1 ~ R. J. Rushdoony
If I were to ask, “What is the chief end of man,” most Reformed Christians would respond with, “to glorify God and enjoy Him forever.” So why are many Reformed Christians opposed to Christian dominion? Wouldn’t it glorify God more to see this world brought into subjection to Christ? Or is Christian piety only a matter of eating and drinking to the glory of God?...
Wednesday, September 2, 2009
Buy a vowell,Central Bank what?
From Gary North
Assessing What Ron Paul Has Accomplished
....The only other reference to central banking in the textbooks is the story -- carefully sanitized -- of the establishment of the Federal Reserve System, a victory described, though never explained, as a triumph of the American people over the political control of money. It was, of course, a triumph of the big bank cartel over competitive banks that offered greater safety. The bankers feared bank runs on overleveraged banks, meaning large New York City banks.
As an historian by training, I can think of no cartelization of any industry that has been more successfully concealed by academia. This is by far the largest, richest, and most successful cartel in American history. Yet there is almost no criticism of the system and its enforcement tool, the Federal Reserve System. Whatever mild technical quibbles the academic community has had with the FED, the central issue of central banking is never even mentioned, let alone refuted. What is the central issue? That all central banking is a government-licensed enforcement arrangement of a well-organized, well-funded cartel. As with all cartels, it operates at the expense of competitors who would otherwise offer better opportunities to the public....
Go catch the 42 minute video on this topic.
Assessing What Ron Paul Has Accomplished
....The only other reference to central banking in the textbooks is the story -- carefully sanitized -- of the establishment of the Federal Reserve System, a victory described, though never explained, as a triumph of the American people over the political control of money. It was, of course, a triumph of the big bank cartel over competitive banks that offered greater safety. The bankers feared bank runs on overleveraged banks, meaning large New York City banks.
As an historian by training, I can think of no cartelization of any industry that has been more successfully concealed by academia. This is by far the largest, richest, and most successful cartel in American history. Yet there is almost no criticism of the system and its enforcement tool, the Federal Reserve System. Whatever mild technical quibbles the academic community has had with the FED, the central issue of central banking is never even mentioned, let alone refuted. What is the central issue? That all central banking is a government-licensed enforcement arrangement of a well-organized, well-funded cartel. As with all cartels, it operates at the expense of competitors who would otherwise offer better opportunities to the public....
Go catch the 42 minute video on this topic.
Gun control and Teddy,some for me,none for you
HT to Lew Rockwell By Massad Ayoub
GUN LOCKS, GUN LAWS, AND THE PASSING OF TED KENNEDY
...As you remember the last of the Generation of Princes in America’s Royal Family, remember him whole. His commitment to civil rights seemed to be limited to the ones he approved of. I recall Ted Kennedy’s private bodyguard being arrested for attempting to carry a fully automatic Beretta machine pistol into a Government building. Apparently, the guns he didn’t want the peasants to have were OK for protecting the Royal Family, whose immense wealth allowed them to hire high-priced private Praetorian Guards...
GUN LOCKS, GUN LAWS, AND THE PASSING OF TED KENNEDY
...As you remember the last of the Generation of Princes in America’s Royal Family, remember him whole. His commitment to civil rights seemed to be limited to the ones he approved of. I recall Ted Kennedy’s private bodyguard being arrested for attempting to carry a fully automatic Beretta machine pistol into a Government building. Apparently, the guns he didn’t want the peasants to have were OK for protecting the Royal Family, whose immense wealth allowed them to hire high-priced private Praetorian Guards...
Tuesday, September 1, 2009
End times,seeing how it fits
At legacy, wading through Luke, we have been working with some end times passages the last three weeks.
Looking at the Word and history and not at what’s happening in the news.... it’s the heritage of Gods people to be the head and not the tail.
No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD. Isaiah 54:17
And as servants of the lord. This is our heritage too.
Now I will grant you that this was spoken to his stiff necked children of Israel. But since we do have a better covenant, and as we are His servants , and we have become children of Abraham too, how can it not be, our heritage and history too.
"Therefore you shall keep every commandment which I command you today, that you may be strong, and go in and possess the land which you cross over to possess, Deut 11:8 (NKJV)
No man shall be able to stand against you; the Lord your God will put the dread of you and the fear of you upon all the land where you tread, just as He has said to you. 26 "Behold, I set before you today a blessing and a curse: 27 the blessing, if you obey the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you today Deut 11:25-27 (NKJV)
And the Lord will make you the head and not the tail; you shall be above only, and not be beneath, if you heed the commandments of the Lord your God, which I command you today, and are careful to observe them. Deut 28:13
One can argue whether the church is the tail today. But no one can make the case that the church is the head. The most turbulent internal events and issues that the nation has faced and the church is pretty silent. Contrast with the birth of the nation, and it was the church, that led the way.
Another parable He spoke to them: "The kingdom of heaven is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal till it was all leavened." Matt 13:33
You cannot stop the leaven, His word will accomplish what he has decreed.
you shall lend to many nations, but you shall not borrow; you shall reign over many nations, but they shall not reign over you. Deut 15:6 Does not Jesus continue along these lines when he says….. go and make disciples of every nation. I do not think the normal scenarios for premill viewpoints ever have the believers reigning over anything until its the overtime portion of the game.
And that He will set you high above all nations which He has made, in praise, in name, and in honor, and that you may be a holy people to the Lord your God, just as He has spoken." Deut 26:19
Eleven of the twelve apostles died as mrytr's as the early church was persecuted, but the church was triumphant against Rome. And then the barbarians whom the might of Rome couldn’t beat, fell before Gods people. That’s only about 800yrs of leavening. But it is, 100’s of years, for the leaven to do that much work.
In the same way that God did not remove all of the enemies and wild beasts from the promised land, but made his people walk it out and take dominion. And he didn’t snap his fingers and defeat Rome or the barbarians in the twinkling of an eye, his people had to walk it out.
When the church was being swept up with the enlightenment, God birthed the Reformation, it took generations, but it moved forward. Right now we are seeing what happens when Gods people stop reforming (discipling if you will ) and turn inward with the faith.
All humanist systems will crumble eventually, because they are built on systems that are apart from God, which means Gods people need to just show up and do what Jesus said, disciple the Nations. ( ok,ok so a lot of us will need to die along the way) but at the end of the day only one team will be standing and I don’t think it will be theirs.
What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? Romans 8:31
The gates of hell shall not prevail….. He is the same yesterday , today, and forever( Heb) Yes this doesn’t exegete to an absolute no premill rapture scenario, but there is a pattern from history, that matches a pattern in the word.
Looking at the Word and history and not at what’s happening in the news.... it’s the heritage of Gods people to be the head and not the tail.
No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD. Isaiah 54:17
And as servants of the lord. This is our heritage too.
Now I will grant you that this was spoken to his stiff necked children of Israel. But since we do have a better covenant, and as we are His servants , and we have become children of Abraham too, how can it not be, our heritage and history too.
"Therefore you shall keep every commandment which I command you today, that you may be strong, and go in and possess the land which you cross over to possess, Deut 11:8 (NKJV)
No man shall be able to stand against you; the Lord your God will put the dread of you and the fear of you upon all the land where you tread, just as He has said to you. 26 "Behold, I set before you today a blessing and a curse: 27 the blessing, if you obey the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you today Deut 11:25-27 (NKJV)
And the Lord will make you the head and not the tail; you shall be above only, and not be beneath, if you heed the commandments of the Lord your God, which I command you today, and are careful to observe them. Deut 28:13
One can argue whether the church is the tail today. But no one can make the case that the church is the head. The most turbulent internal events and issues that the nation has faced and the church is pretty silent. Contrast with the birth of the nation, and it was the church, that led the way.
Another parable He spoke to them: "The kingdom of heaven is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal till it was all leavened." Matt 13:33
You cannot stop the leaven, His word will accomplish what he has decreed.
you shall lend to many nations, but you shall not borrow; you shall reign over many nations, but they shall not reign over you. Deut 15:6 Does not Jesus continue along these lines when he says….. go and make disciples of every nation. I do not think the normal scenarios for premill viewpoints ever have the believers reigning over anything until its the overtime portion of the game.
And that He will set you high above all nations which He has made, in praise, in name, and in honor, and that you may be a holy people to the Lord your God, just as He has spoken." Deut 26:19
Eleven of the twelve apostles died as mrytr's as the early church was persecuted, but the church was triumphant against Rome. And then the barbarians whom the might of Rome couldn’t beat, fell before Gods people. That’s only about 800yrs of leavening. But it is, 100’s of years, for the leaven to do that much work.
In the same way that God did not remove all of the enemies and wild beasts from the promised land, but made his people walk it out and take dominion. And he didn’t snap his fingers and defeat Rome or the barbarians in the twinkling of an eye, his people had to walk it out.
When the church was being swept up with the enlightenment, God birthed the Reformation, it took generations, but it moved forward. Right now we are seeing what happens when Gods people stop reforming (discipling if you will ) and turn inward with the faith.
All humanist systems will crumble eventually, because they are built on systems that are apart from God, which means Gods people need to just show up and do what Jesus said, disciple the Nations. ( ok,ok so a lot of us will need to die along the way) but at the end of the day only one team will be standing and I don’t think it will be theirs.
What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? Romans 8:31
The gates of hell shall not prevail….. He is the same yesterday , today, and forever( Heb) Yes this doesn’t exegete to an absolute no premill rapture scenario, but there is a pattern from history, that matches a pattern in the word.
Let the dead bury their dead
Enjoying two more books.....
From Douglas Wilson one is called Black and Tan, and you know a book will be good when you mark up the introduction hot and heavy. He notes in the intro..." that the boundaries of the acceptable are always vigoriously policed......and when you differ..." from the reigning orthodoxy, whatever that orthodoxy may happen to be (and there always is one)...." wilosn is talking about history, but this truth easily transfers to our churchs, politics, anything.
As was recently noted, when something has been accepted for a long time......it becomes the orthodox, and anyone differing with it, even using scripture, becomes the heretic. Voddies line about..."I dont write it, I just deliver the mail", comes to mind.
I asked Voddie early that Sunday am on what he was seeing when it came to these messages that he had delivered at the convention, whether people could bring back truth and it be received in their Church’s? Voddie, with just a deadpanned look on his face shook his head, no.
Old wineskin. Sometimes you have to let the dead bury their dead, and you come follow me.
I meant to mention this book after my camping trip. Doug Wilson's book Easy Chairs, Hard Words has been great for me. I have lead a sheltered Christian life. Thomas Kinkade Christianity, find a snugly little cabin to wait in until the lord returns.
This has been the best little book to help some truths slide deeper into place. The subtitle is “discussions on the liberty of God”
I am three chapters into it and I think I will use it to read to the whole family. It has been the best at laying out in such an easy to see fashion, the truths John Calvin brought to the faith. Wilson being a former full blown evangelical like me knows how to discuss these absolutely foreign, but biblical truths, in a manner that goes down as easy as these truths can.
You can also find the book for about $4 at half .com
From Douglas Wilson one is called Black and Tan, and you know a book will be good when you mark up the introduction hot and heavy. He notes in the intro..." that the boundaries of the acceptable are always vigoriously policed......and when you differ..." from the reigning orthodoxy, whatever that orthodoxy may happen to be (and there always is one)...." wilosn is talking about history, but this truth easily transfers to our churchs, politics, anything.
As was recently noted, when something has been accepted for a long time......it becomes the orthodox, and anyone differing with it, even using scripture, becomes the heretic. Voddies line about..."I dont write it, I just deliver the mail", comes to mind.
I asked Voddie early that Sunday am on what he was seeing when it came to these messages that he had delivered at the convention, whether people could bring back truth and it be received in their Church’s? Voddie, with just a deadpanned look on his face shook his head, no.
Old wineskin. Sometimes you have to let the dead bury their dead, and you come follow me.
I meant to mention this book after my camping trip. Doug Wilson's book Easy Chairs, Hard Words has been great for me. I have lead a sheltered Christian life. Thomas Kinkade Christianity, find a snugly little cabin to wait in until the lord returns.
This has been the best little book to help some truths slide deeper into place. The subtitle is “discussions on the liberty of God”
I am three chapters into it and I think I will use it to read to the whole family. It has been the best at laying out in such an easy to see fashion, the truths John Calvin brought to the faith. Wilson being a former full blown evangelical like me knows how to discuss these absolutely foreign, but biblical truths, in a manner that goes down as easy as these truths can.
You can also find the book for about $4 at half .com
How is it, that they too, are not then fulfilled in Christ?
Blessed is the man whom You instruct, O Lord, And teach out of Your law, 13 That You may give him rest from the days of adversity, Until the pit is dug for the wicked. Psalms 94:12-13 (NKJV)
Praise the Lord! Blessed is the man who fears the Lord, Who delights greatly in His commandments. Psalms 112:1 (NKJV)
Blessed is the man Who walks not in the counsel of the ungodly, Nor stands in the path of sinners, Nor sits in the seat of the scornful; 2 But his delight is in the law of the Lord, And in His law he meditates day and night. Psalms 1:1-2 (NKJV)
Oh never mind,
I thought I saw a pattern forming.
(Please, please, please note: nothing that follows has anything to do with meriting righteousness.)
At the end of Gary North’s book,Westminsters Confession, he has some appendix sections. One of them is a 33pg response to a big article that Christianity Today did in 1987,it was a deliberate hatchet job to discredit and dismiss, rather than answer men like Rushdoony, Bahnsen, North. That the author admitted to not even reading one book from any of these men was sad. The fact that this was the magazine that claimes to have its hand on the pulse of Christianity is both heart breaking and sickening as to what was happening, or was it, what had happened, to the mainstream church.
North’s response exposes that about 90% are straw men accusations, things never advocated, by them. It was an effective smear. As I have heard every one of these as late as the last couple of years. A lie will travel around the world before the truth even gets it shoe’s on, or something like that. That this happened within the context of the Church, ouch. We cannot be surprised at the lying and distorting of our politicians when the very bride of Christ needs to repent of it.
Has this not been a constant plea of Doug Phillips, that we in the church would at least be honest about the positions of those we disagree with.
In his, North’s response, he notes that he himself has “written thousands upon thousands” of pages on how relevant OT law is to economics today and makes this statement of the other side…”they have not done their homework. They have not shown just exactly how Gods laws against theft, debt, inflated fiat money, false weights and measures, and similar evils have been annulled by the gospel of Christ….”
That would be exegetically. Emphasis was mine. This too is the crux of his book. That no one, not the professors or the president at Westminster even tries to make an exegetical case for their positions.
Wilson would use a line like…"lets get our flashlights and crawl under the floor boards and take a look what presuppositions we are standing on."
And then see what happens if we are consistant with them.
In a way, the very name of Jesus is used as a rubber stamp to just dismiss his very own words? That if we just step inside his name, pin it to our statements , it is no longer that we...live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God...and... if you love me keep my commandments...and...why do you call me Lord,lord and do not do the things I say...and Paul saying...Yea,but we establish the law...or Jesus again speaking of HIS law...not one jot or title will disappear...because in Jesus, he has accomplished it all.
Now, even if you could exegete to the above conclusion,how do you again, by exegeting, turn it off, so it doesn’t include..I don’t have to give someone that’s thirsty a drink of water, because its already done in Jesus...or honor my mother and father, because that too, is done in Jesus, or take car of the widow and orphan....
For if we can take Paul’s statement about” yea, but rather we establish the law” and say its done in Jesus, then, these other statements of Paul’s, that “we should not forsake the gathering of believers” and the principle of “do not muzzle the ox” (supporting those who labor in the word for us). how is it, that they too, are not then fulfilled "in Christ"?
Somewhere Paul used a statement like… I must be crazy to speak like this.
Enjoyed the book, appreciated North’s broad and deep view of church history too.
Praise the Lord! Blessed is the man who fears the Lord, Who delights greatly in His commandments. Psalms 112:1 (NKJV)
Blessed is the man Who walks not in the counsel of the ungodly, Nor stands in the path of sinners, Nor sits in the seat of the scornful; 2 But his delight is in the law of the Lord, And in His law he meditates day and night. Psalms 1:1-2 (NKJV)
Oh never mind,
I thought I saw a pattern forming.
(Please, please, please note: nothing that follows has anything to do with meriting righteousness.)
At the end of Gary North’s book,Westminsters Confession, he has some appendix sections. One of them is a 33pg response to a big article that Christianity Today did in 1987,it was a deliberate hatchet job to discredit and dismiss, rather than answer men like Rushdoony, Bahnsen, North. That the author admitted to not even reading one book from any of these men was sad. The fact that this was the magazine that claimes to have its hand on the pulse of Christianity is both heart breaking and sickening as to what was happening, or was it, what had happened, to the mainstream church.
North’s response exposes that about 90% are straw men accusations, things never advocated, by them. It was an effective smear. As I have heard every one of these as late as the last couple of years. A lie will travel around the world before the truth even gets it shoe’s on, or something like that. That this happened within the context of the Church, ouch. We cannot be surprised at the lying and distorting of our politicians when the very bride of Christ needs to repent of it.
Has this not been a constant plea of Doug Phillips, that we in the church would at least be honest about the positions of those we disagree with.
In his, North’s response, he notes that he himself has “written thousands upon thousands” of pages on how relevant OT law is to economics today and makes this statement of the other side…”they have not done their homework. They have not shown just exactly how Gods laws against theft, debt, inflated fiat money, false weights and measures, and similar evils have been annulled by the gospel of Christ….”
That would be exegetically. Emphasis was mine. This too is the crux of his book. That no one, not the professors or the president at Westminster even tries to make an exegetical case for their positions.
Wilson would use a line like…"lets get our flashlights and crawl under the floor boards and take a look what presuppositions we are standing on."
And then see what happens if we are consistant with them.
In a way, the very name of Jesus is used as a rubber stamp to just dismiss his very own words? That if we just step inside his name, pin it to our statements , it is no longer that we...live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God...and... if you love me keep my commandments...and...why do you call me Lord,lord and do not do the things I say...and Paul saying...Yea,but we establish the law...or Jesus again speaking of HIS law...not one jot or title will disappear...because in Jesus, he has accomplished it all.
Now, even if you could exegete to the above conclusion,how do you again, by exegeting, turn it off, so it doesn’t include..I don’t have to give someone that’s thirsty a drink of water, because its already done in Jesus...or honor my mother and father, because that too, is done in Jesus, or take car of the widow and orphan....
For if we can take Paul’s statement about” yea, but rather we establish the law” and say its done in Jesus, then, these other statements of Paul’s, that “we should not forsake the gathering of believers” and the principle of “do not muzzle the ox” (supporting those who labor in the word for us). how is it, that they too, are not then fulfilled "in Christ"?
Somewhere Paul used a statement like… I must be crazy to speak like this.
Enjoyed the book, appreciated North’s broad and deep view of church history too.
A fully functioning Faith
I heard just a great conversation between Botkin and Swanson from the family camp in New Mexico. This is real full orbed Christianity. It is titled culture changers. And dont miss this follow up.
This conversation only makes sense in light of passages like...eph1:20-22 He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come. 22 And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church, phill1:10 9 And this I pray, that your love may abound still more and more in knowledge and all discernment, 10 that you may approve the things that are excellent, that you may be sincere and without offense till the day of Christ, Col1:9,10 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.
If you are comfortable with your children being swept along with the culture so they can "let their light shine." Just skip it.
This conversation only makes sense in light of passages like...eph1:20-22 He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come. 22 And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church, phill1:10 9 And this I pray, that your love may abound still more and more in knowledge and all discernment, 10 that you may approve the things that are excellent, that you may be sincere and without offense till the day of Christ, Col1:9,10 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.
If you are comfortable with your children being swept along with the culture so they can "let their light shine." Just skip it.
What do you expect?
Modern Christianity has all the enthusiasm that the Pharisee’s had when Jesus told them that their man made traditions had made null the Law of God.
Let’s Kill him…..
Many want, what God wants.
But most, have been taught, to expect that what God wants, is to manifest a greater degree of his Love.
And we do expect, that if God reveals something new to us….it will fit inside our existing context and paradigm. When it doesn’t, it exposes our brittleness. ….”and it seemed odd that people calling themselves prophets should denounce the practice…”
Even when many of us have broken out of the old church mold , we will continue to react to scripture, not by the verse and its context, or whether it harmonizes with grand themes from Gods word, but rather by whom we have known to hang around with those verses. Everyone knows that good scripture, will not hang out with people like that.
May God give us grace to be as new wine skins. Or we will make a mess, and burst.
Let’s Kill him…..
Many want, what God wants.
But most, have been taught, to expect that what God wants, is to manifest a greater degree of his Love.
And we do expect, that if God reveals something new to us….it will fit inside our existing context and paradigm. When it doesn’t, it exposes our brittleness. ….”and it seemed odd that people calling themselves prophets should denounce the practice…”
Even when many of us have broken out of the old church mold , we will continue to react to scripture, not by the verse and its context, or whether it harmonizes with grand themes from Gods word, but rather by whom we have known to hang around with those verses. Everyone knows that good scripture, will not hang out with people like that.
May God give us grace to be as new wine skins. Or we will make a mess, and burst.
Sunday, August 23, 2009
For your Law is my delight
…..there is no way to listen to the apostle Paul in the right way, learning from him as a faithful Christian should, without opening yourself up to the accusation that you are following him in the wrong way. There is such a thing as bibliolatry, of course, as John 5:39 reveals, but we also need to remember that it would be pretty easy to accuse some faithful soul of bibliolatry if he was doing anything so foolish as living by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. It looks bad, you know?...... from Blog and Mablog
So when I read things like…
165 Great peace have those who love Your law, And nothing causes them to stumble. Psalms 119:165 (NKJV)
And…
77 Let Your tender mercies come to me, that I may live; For Your law is my delight. Psalms 119:77 (NKJV)
And…
7 Oh, how I love Your law! It is my meditation all the day. 98 You, through Your commandments, make me wiser than my enemies; For they are ever with me. 99 I have more understanding than all my teachers, For Your testimonies are my meditation. 100 I understand more than the ancients, Because I keep Your precepts. 101 I have restrained my feet from every evil way, That I may keep Your word. 102 I have not departed from Your judgments, For You Yourself have taught me.Psalms 119:97-102 (NKJV)
Look at that last one… I pray that, like that author someday I could say that I am… wiser than my enemies…. I have more understanding than all my teachers….100 I understand more than the ancients…. I have restrained my feet from every evil way…..102 I have not departed from Your judgments…. I wish! Glory!, But to my shame I do not know his law like I should!
These are the things that God said to make the cornerstone of your children’s education. To work on them morning noon and night. By inference they should just be oozing out of us to the next generation. This is the foundation for understanding the world and life, to be able to even understand principles of right and wrong and seeing a foundation for real truth.
You cannot find God communicating anything with more intensity than when speaking of his law.
…it would be pretty easy to accuse some faithful soul of bibliolatry if he was doing anything so foolish as living by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God…. Legalist!
Much of the modern church is like some old seafarer from the 1300’s holding an incomplete map of the waterways and just where the known areas disappear on the map is a written warning…Here be sea monsters!
It doesn’t matter what Gods word says…here be monsters.
So when I read things like…
165 Great peace have those who love Your law, And nothing causes them to stumble. Psalms 119:165 (NKJV)
And…
77 Let Your tender mercies come to me, that I may live; For Your law is my delight. Psalms 119:77 (NKJV)
And…
7 Oh, how I love Your law! It is my meditation all the day. 98 You, through Your commandments, make me wiser than my enemies; For they are ever with me. 99 I have more understanding than all my teachers, For Your testimonies are my meditation. 100 I understand more than the ancients, Because I keep Your precepts. 101 I have restrained my feet from every evil way, That I may keep Your word. 102 I have not departed from Your judgments, For You Yourself have taught me.Psalms 119:97-102 (NKJV)
Look at that last one… I pray that, like that author someday I could say that I am… wiser than my enemies…. I have more understanding than all my teachers….100 I understand more than the ancients…. I have restrained my feet from every evil way…..102 I have not departed from Your judgments…. I wish! Glory!, But to my shame I do not know his law like I should!
These are the things that God said to make the cornerstone of your children’s education. To work on them morning noon and night. By inference they should just be oozing out of us to the next generation. This is the foundation for understanding the world and life, to be able to even understand principles of right and wrong and seeing a foundation for real truth.
You cannot find God communicating anything with more intensity than when speaking of his law.
…it would be pretty easy to accuse some faithful soul of bibliolatry if he was doing anything so foolish as living by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God…. Legalist!
Much of the modern church is like some old seafarer from the 1300’s holding an incomplete map of the waterways and just where the known areas disappear on the map is a written warning…Here be sea monsters!
It doesn’t matter what Gods word says…here be monsters.
Using all of the word,not just the verses in the "Bread" basket
This is a fun free page at Gary north's,starts with his extended responce to jim Wallis and Obama care
....Humorist P. J. O'Rourke has described the ethics of welfare state.
There is no virtue in compulsory government charity, and there is no virtue in advocating it. A politician who portrays himself as "caring" and "sensitive" because he wants to expand the government's charitable programs is merely saying that he's willing to try to do good with other people's money. Well, who isn't? And a voter who takes pride in supporting such programs is telling us that he'll do good with his own money -- if a gun is held to his head....
No New Testament account of Jesus offers evidence that He recommended such a view of Christian civil government. This inconvenient fact is regarded as a slight impediment by Social Gospelers, but nothing too serious. They insist that this is what Jesus really meant to say, even though He never actually said it, and despite the fact that the Old Testament adamantly denies such a view of civil justice. God through Moses warned:
Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour. (Leviticus 19:15)...
The Social Gospel movement is committed to guns and butter: the government's guns and your butter. The more guns the government has, the less butter you will have.
The Social Gospel's version of Jesus is a long-haired guy in sandals leading a mob of newly registered voters. He is packing a .44 magnum. His motto: "Go ahead, taxpayer. Make my day."
The Social Gospel asks this question: What Would Jesus Steal? Its answer: "As much as He can convince politicians to vote for."...
Why Is the Social Security Tax (FICA) a Biblical Requirement, When the Bible Speaks of Taking Care of Our Own Parents?
Why Is It God's Way to Allow the Government Control Over Health Care -- Life or Death -- by Taxing and Rationing?
How Do You Determine What Is a Person's Fair Share of Taxes, Other Than by the Ballot Box and a Gun?
Why Is an Additional $787 Billion Federal Government Deficit the Christian Way of Helping the Poor?
....Humorist P. J. O'Rourke has described the ethics of welfare state.
There is no virtue in compulsory government charity, and there is no virtue in advocating it. A politician who portrays himself as "caring" and "sensitive" because he wants to expand the government's charitable programs is merely saying that he's willing to try to do good with other people's money. Well, who isn't? And a voter who takes pride in supporting such programs is telling us that he'll do good with his own money -- if a gun is held to his head....
No New Testament account of Jesus offers evidence that He recommended such a view of Christian civil government. This inconvenient fact is regarded as a slight impediment by Social Gospelers, but nothing too serious. They insist that this is what Jesus really meant to say, even though He never actually said it, and despite the fact that the Old Testament adamantly denies such a view of civil justice. God through Moses warned:
Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour. (Leviticus 19:15)...
The Social Gospel movement is committed to guns and butter: the government's guns and your butter. The more guns the government has, the less butter you will have.
The Social Gospel's version of Jesus is a long-haired guy in sandals leading a mob of newly registered voters. He is packing a .44 magnum. His motto: "Go ahead, taxpayer. Make my day."
The Social Gospel asks this question: What Would Jesus Steal? Its answer: "As much as He can convince politicians to vote for."...
Why Is the Social Security Tax (FICA) a Biblical Requirement, When the Bible Speaks of Taking Care of Our Own Parents?
Why Is It God's Way to Allow the Government Control Over Health Care -- Life or Death -- by Taxing and Rationing?
How Do You Determine What Is a Person's Fair Share of Taxes, Other Than by the Ballot Box and a Gun?
Why Is an Additional $787 Billion Federal Government Deficit the Christian Way of Helping the Poor?
Saturday, August 22, 2009
Steyn...they want to nationalize our bodies
Control Your Own Body, Aye
by Douglas Wilson
.....Mark Steyn has pointed out, quite aptly, that in the health care debate we are now discussing the nationalization of your body and mine. But he needs to press the argument one step further....
This is just like that other popular saying on the Left -- keep the government out of bedrooms. Okay, I'm for that. Currently the governments tells us how far apart the sheetrock screws have to be, how big the windows have to be for egress in case of fire, how far apart the electric outlets have to be, what kind of chemicals can be in the paint, and whether or not we can cut that tag off the mattress without getting the FBI involved. Sure, let's get government out of our bedrooms. Oh, you didn't mean that? You just meant you wanted them to be mute where God actually revealed something to us (as in, no, you can't marry your sister), and having begun the disobedience there, to legislate endlessly and like crazy about everything else, dictating the most minute details about your bedroom?
If this foolishness makes sense to you,.....
by Douglas Wilson
.....Mark Steyn has pointed out, quite aptly, that in the health care debate we are now discussing the nationalization of your body and mine. But he needs to press the argument one step further....
This is just like that other popular saying on the Left -- keep the government out of bedrooms. Okay, I'm for that. Currently the governments tells us how far apart the sheetrock screws have to be, how big the windows have to be for egress in case of fire, how far apart the electric outlets have to be, what kind of chemicals can be in the paint, and whether or not we can cut that tag off the mattress without getting the FBI involved. Sure, let's get government out of our bedrooms. Oh, you didn't mean that? You just meant you wanted them to be mute where God actually revealed something to us (as in, no, you can't marry your sister), and having begun the disobedience there, to legislate endlessly and like crazy about everything else, dictating the most minute details about your bedroom?
If this foolishness makes sense to you,.....
Friday, August 21, 2009
Who Knew? State rights
Reading things like this are just so strange to us today, there is no reference point to put it with. We have lost our heritage.
HT to Lew Rockwell
The States’ Rights Tradition Nobody Knows
In 1798, the legislatures of Virginia and Kentucky approved resolutions that affirmed the states’ right to resist federal encroachments on their powers. If the federal government has the exclusive right to judge the extent of its own powers, warned the resolutions’ authors (James Madison and Thomas Jefferson, respectively), it will continue to grow – regardless of elections, the separation of powers, and other much-touted limits on government power. The Virginia Resolutions spoke of the states’ right to “interpose” between the federal government and the people of the state; the Kentucky Resolutions (in a 1799 follow-up to the original resolutions) used the term “nullification” – the states, they said, could nullify unconstitutional federal laws....whole article
HT to Lew Rockwell
The States’ Rights Tradition Nobody Knows
In 1798, the legislatures of Virginia and Kentucky approved resolutions that affirmed the states’ right to resist federal encroachments on their powers. If the federal government has the exclusive right to judge the extent of its own powers, warned the resolutions’ authors (James Madison and Thomas Jefferson, respectively), it will continue to grow – regardless of elections, the separation of powers, and other much-touted limits on government power. The Virginia Resolutions spoke of the states’ right to “interpose” between the federal government and the people of the state; the Kentucky Resolutions (in a 1799 follow-up to the original resolutions) used the term “nullification” – the states, they said, could nullify unconstitutional federal laws....whole article
Self Defense is part of being a well rounded Christian
HT to lewrockwell. I will be looking for this book.
Armed Response
...In the Foreword, Massad Ayoob writes, “If there is a crime of violence, the potential victim needs the wherewithal to stop the deadly danger and stabilize the scene by himself…” And that’s just what Armed Response lays out for the reader. The book covers what you need to know before, during, and after a life threatening encounter including what to ask yourself before deciding to carry a gun, how to choose a gun that’s right for you, what to look for in holsters, how to carry a concealed gun, proper training techniques, and the legal issues and implications of using lethal force....
Armed Response
...In the Foreword, Massad Ayoob writes, “If there is a crime of violence, the potential victim needs the wherewithal to stop the deadly danger and stabilize the scene by himself…” And that’s just what Armed Response lays out for the reader. The book covers what you need to know before, during, and after a life threatening encounter including what to ask yourself before deciding to carry a gun, how to choose a gun that’s right for you, what to look for in holsters, how to carry a concealed gun, proper training techniques, and the legal issues and implications of using lethal force....
Christian myths
I received a birthday card this year that read “ God has promised happiness and he is always faithful to His word.” Another reminder of how many Christian myths I have believed in.
Listening to Voddie’s “a thoroughly Christian education” and hearing him destroy the myth of the “let your light shine” verse was the most recent.
Gary Norths book on Westminsters Confession talked of the myth of Christian religious pluralism. He has made the point that things, if repeated enough, become believed as if they had been exegetically proven. He points out that many, for a long time, have said the New testament teaches a pluralistic pattern of civil government and that most contemporary churchs believe this. Hence we as Christians can be neutral about government today. Roger Williams first pushed this in the 1640’s. North says no such book exists that shows this exegetical task has ever been done by anyone. “..People write as if there is a large body of published material that shows exegetically that this is the view of the New Testament …” Pg110-111 He mentions that the pluralists are always deeply offended when this is pointed out to them.
Herbert Scholssberg warned ( Idols For Destruction)….that idols are hard to identify after they have been a part of society for a long time. It became normal for the people of Jerusalem to worship Molech in the temple, and it seemed odd that people calling themselves prophets should denounce the practice…” pg111
That’s the lesson for all of us. Lest we find ourselves opposing what God is trying to correct. What are the basic foundational suppositions we stand on, and have they been tested against the Word? We do not need to be offended if someone is touching something that was settled in our mind.
We should all be quick to defend the Orthodox faith. But we have to be cognizant that the Lord is going to continue to point out high places that must come down. I no longer think I have the goods. So it is easier and quicker to leave what was once a “truth”.
I have long trail of counterfeit currency on the ground behind me. The bills all had picture of Jesus on them so I thought it all must be true. Once over my embarrassment, I am truly, very thankful.
Listening to Voddie’s “a thoroughly Christian education” and hearing him destroy the myth of the “let your light shine” verse was the most recent.
Gary Norths book on Westminsters Confession talked of the myth of Christian religious pluralism. He has made the point that things, if repeated enough, become believed as if they had been exegetically proven. He points out that many, for a long time, have said the New testament teaches a pluralistic pattern of civil government and that most contemporary churchs believe this. Hence we as Christians can be neutral about government today. Roger Williams first pushed this in the 1640’s. North says no such book exists that shows this exegetical task has ever been done by anyone. “..People write as if there is a large body of published material that shows exegetically that this is the view of the New Testament …” Pg110-111 He mentions that the pluralists are always deeply offended when this is pointed out to them.
Herbert Scholssberg warned ( Idols For Destruction)….that idols are hard to identify after they have been a part of society for a long time. It became normal for the people of Jerusalem to worship Molech in the temple, and it seemed odd that people calling themselves prophets should denounce the practice…” pg111
That’s the lesson for all of us. Lest we find ourselves opposing what God is trying to correct. What are the basic foundational suppositions we stand on, and have they been tested against the Word? We do not need to be offended if someone is touching something that was settled in our mind.
We should all be quick to defend the Orthodox faith. But we have to be cognizant that the Lord is going to continue to point out high places that must come down. I no longer think I have the goods. So it is easier and quicker to leave what was once a “truth”.
I have long trail of counterfeit currency on the ground behind me. The bills all had picture of Jesus on them so I thought it all must be true. Once over my embarrassment, I am truly, very thankful.
Obama Care
Obamacare
My Christian experience has come from the shallow end of the pool. So to me, this type of perspective seems like its from the moon. It is Gary North addressing a well meaning persons (I hope they are well meaning) attempt to stick the name of Jesus onto national health care. Here is an exerpt...
.....Christians believe in personal responsibility before God. This has to do with the doctrine of final judgment: heaven and hell.
Jesus healed a few people. He did not heal everyone. To heal even a few people for free led to huge crowds lining up to get free health care from Jesus. So many came that Jesus withdrew to the wilderness to pray (Luke 5:15). He could not heal the entire nation, let alone the whole world. Your slogan does not limit concern to one nation. It is universal: "all people."
Christians affirm that the world is under a curse (Genesis 3:17-19). This curse involves death. It also involves thorns and thistles. It affirms, loud and clear, "There ain't no such thing as a free lunch." The economist says, "At zero price, there is greater demand than supply."
It was Satan, not Jesus, who suggested turning stones into bread (Matthew 4:3)......
Nothing can heal everyone except God. The State is not God.....Read the whole thing
Back on the 13th at my blog, I linked to Douglas Wilson adressing this issue on multiple occasions here. Good food for thought. Christian thinking, looks different than humanistic emoting. We have been trained as evangelicals to respond in sympathy with passionate emoting. Whether or not something was biblical had nothing to do with it. For example see any of the last centurys moralistic crusades that Christians jumped into with both feet. We would have put Jesus in jail for turning water into wine.
My Christian experience has come from the shallow end of the pool. So to me, this type of perspective seems like its from the moon. It is Gary North addressing a well meaning persons (I hope they are well meaning) attempt to stick the name of Jesus onto national health care. Here is an exerpt...
.....Christians believe in personal responsibility before God. This has to do with the doctrine of final judgment: heaven and hell.
Jesus healed a few people. He did not heal everyone. To heal even a few people for free led to huge crowds lining up to get free health care from Jesus. So many came that Jesus withdrew to the wilderness to pray (Luke 5:15). He could not heal the entire nation, let alone the whole world. Your slogan does not limit concern to one nation. It is universal: "all people."
Christians affirm that the world is under a curse (Genesis 3:17-19). This curse involves death. It also involves thorns and thistles. It affirms, loud and clear, "There ain't no such thing as a free lunch." The economist says, "At zero price, there is greater demand than supply."
It was Satan, not Jesus, who suggested turning stones into bread (Matthew 4:3)......
Nothing can heal everyone except God. The State is not God.....Read the whole thing
Back on the 13th at my blog, I linked to Douglas Wilson adressing this issue on multiple occasions here. Good food for thought. Christian thinking, looks different than humanistic emoting. We have been trained as evangelicals to respond in sympathy with passionate emoting. Whether or not something was biblical had nothing to do with it. For example see any of the last centurys moralistic crusades that Christians jumped into with both feet. We would have put Jesus in jail for turning water into wine.
Restoring the Center
I am noticing some repeating patterns…..
The family made it up to the mountains, read some good stuff, and am listening to Voddies talks from the convention again. Whoa! Voddie B just obliterates so many of the typical Christian responses that are used to justify living the Christian life, in a man centered fashion. That he uses the very same verses we hide behind is the corker.
What happens when the center doesn’t hold? Everything else will give up ground eventually. There will also be nothing to build upon, that’s the worst!
I have noticed that every speaker that stands with Gods law is able to use the rest of scripture in tangible fashions, applications, directions. They actually have teaching that can be called discipling. As compared to sharing, or reacting against something. This is discipling in a manner that is applicable to the nations. It becomes culture transforming, just like the impact the reformers had. The purpose of all, becomes to glorify God. So far I have seen this true for every teacher who accepts Gods Law. The teaching has an outward, instead of an inward bent.
For if you cannot see how the very Law of God applies to us, then how can you find much of anything else that is solid and applying to us. It gets really hard.
When Voddie says that pastors tell him not to talk about homeschooling, etc , because they follow a kind of pragmatic, live and let live, just love one another attitude in their churchs and teach that all “schooling choices” are viable. This is a screaming example of how the center is just plain gone. ( my wife recently related how a well known man, a famous author to those of us who have no use for dating, and is a pastor, was stressing this very policy to his church!) So they know they need, and now want world view teaching, but want Voddie to be silent about THE WAY that God wanted the world view to be imparted. We cannot see that our stinky, anemic, lack of biblical understanding is exactly because of how, we were educated.
Much of the modern church can see that something is wrong. Focus on the Family made a great effort with their Worldview Series, but it fell short as it stayed inside the context of modern evangelicalism, which means apart from Gods Law. We have been taught to expect it our way, as individuals. That becomes a corporate expectation, as a body of believers. You cannot give, free range chickens, purpose. They will never build, a city on a hill.
Wilson describes how you can have “someone with man centered doctrines, but still be an individual who tries to live a God centered life. “ I think these people are going to have hearts breaking for God, turning ever sharper inward, always examining their own hearts , but frustrated, because they cannot see how a lot of this energy was meant to translate out through our lives to everything around us, in how we think and act.
I for one just love it, and find it so fulfilling, to just have stopped walking in those circles, and now going in a direction! To see how there is no topic that Gods grace cannot be seen in and explored! Every thought captive!
Those who miss the Law can have a partial God centered theology but it will still end up with humanistic fruit. Because the default starting point for most of, everyday, you know , ”normal” life, will be a humanistic position. Errr I mean a neutral starting point, where there are common areas , that all men can rationally see, and accept. Ha! As opposed to “what sayeth the scriptures?” 8 "For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways," says the Lord. 9 "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts than your thoughts. Isaiah 55:8-9 (NKJV)
Gary Norths book, Westminster Confession shows how if you dismiss Gods law, the Christian faith turns into exhibit A of “when the center does not hold”. He doesn’t call it that, but it fits. He lays out just way , way , more levels of how much of the surety of the Word itself , just turns to mist.
The understanding that this center used to be known is forgotten, and the idea that it can be found and stood upon seems threatening and legalistic. It is Gary’s probing questions that he asks the university to answer that shows how deep the rot is. It was an eye opener to me, I had no clue at how much is really at stake and given up, with the “no Gods law” crowd. This whole argument was ignored by the Christian press in the 70’s and 80’s. It had to be ignored as it cut right against the grain of modern accepted Christian thinking. You cannot call it an argument though, because only one side was talking, the other side just tried to pretend they were not there.
So when Voddie, Phillips, Swanson, Wilson, Sproul etc speak….. it is like a hot knife through butter, just a bracing experience for many Christians…” this man speaks with authority.” Too many Christians have been enjoying this butter that the culture serves, and some are not too keen to see the butter get handled like this.
We have no boasting except for what He has done. God opened the King of England’s eyes, surely we can confidently pray that he will have mercy and open more eyes of his people! That Voddie kept calling people to the authority of Gods Word and his Law, and that his talks stayed full is a sign that God is at work restoring the center.
That His will, will be done, on earth, as it is in heaven! Amen!
The family made it up to the mountains, read some good stuff, and am listening to Voddies talks from the convention again. Whoa! Voddie B just obliterates so many of the typical Christian responses that are used to justify living the Christian life, in a man centered fashion. That he uses the very same verses we hide behind is the corker.
What happens when the center doesn’t hold? Everything else will give up ground eventually. There will also be nothing to build upon, that’s the worst!
I have noticed that every speaker that stands with Gods law is able to use the rest of scripture in tangible fashions, applications, directions. They actually have teaching that can be called discipling. As compared to sharing, or reacting against something. This is discipling in a manner that is applicable to the nations. It becomes culture transforming, just like the impact the reformers had. The purpose of all, becomes to glorify God. So far I have seen this true for every teacher who accepts Gods Law. The teaching has an outward, instead of an inward bent.
For if you cannot see how the very Law of God applies to us, then how can you find much of anything else that is solid and applying to us. It gets really hard.
When Voddie says that pastors tell him not to talk about homeschooling, etc , because they follow a kind of pragmatic, live and let live, just love one another attitude in their churchs and teach that all “schooling choices” are viable. This is a screaming example of how the center is just plain gone. ( my wife recently related how a well known man, a famous author to those of us who have no use for dating, and is a pastor, was stressing this very policy to his church!) So they know they need, and now want world view teaching, but want Voddie to be silent about THE WAY that God wanted the world view to be imparted. We cannot see that our stinky, anemic, lack of biblical understanding is exactly because of how, we were educated.
Much of the modern church can see that something is wrong. Focus on the Family made a great effort with their Worldview Series, but it fell short as it stayed inside the context of modern evangelicalism, which means apart from Gods Law. We have been taught to expect it our way, as individuals. That becomes a corporate expectation, as a body of believers. You cannot give, free range chickens, purpose. They will never build, a city on a hill.
Wilson describes how you can have “someone with man centered doctrines, but still be an individual who tries to live a God centered life. “ I think these people are going to have hearts breaking for God, turning ever sharper inward, always examining their own hearts , but frustrated, because they cannot see how a lot of this energy was meant to translate out through our lives to everything around us, in how we think and act.
I for one just love it, and find it so fulfilling, to just have stopped walking in those circles, and now going in a direction! To see how there is no topic that Gods grace cannot be seen in and explored! Every thought captive!
Those who miss the Law can have a partial God centered theology but it will still end up with humanistic fruit. Because the default starting point for most of, everyday, you know , ”normal” life, will be a humanistic position. Errr I mean a neutral starting point, where there are common areas , that all men can rationally see, and accept. Ha! As opposed to “what sayeth the scriptures?” 8 "For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways," says the Lord. 9 "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts than your thoughts. Isaiah 55:8-9 (NKJV)
Gary Norths book, Westminster Confession shows how if you dismiss Gods law, the Christian faith turns into exhibit A of “when the center does not hold”. He doesn’t call it that, but it fits. He lays out just way , way , more levels of how much of the surety of the Word itself , just turns to mist.
The understanding that this center used to be known is forgotten, and the idea that it can be found and stood upon seems threatening and legalistic. It is Gary’s probing questions that he asks the university to answer that shows how deep the rot is. It was an eye opener to me, I had no clue at how much is really at stake and given up, with the “no Gods law” crowd. This whole argument was ignored by the Christian press in the 70’s and 80’s. It had to be ignored as it cut right against the grain of modern accepted Christian thinking. You cannot call it an argument though, because only one side was talking, the other side just tried to pretend they were not there.
So when Voddie, Phillips, Swanson, Wilson, Sproul etc speak….. it is like a hot knife through butter, just a bracing experience for many Christians…” this man speaks with authority.” Too many Christians have been enjoying this butter that the culture serves, and some are not too keen to see the butter get handled like this.
We have no boasting except for what He has done. God opened the King of England’s eyes, surely we can confidently pray that he will have mercy and open more eyes of his people! That Voddie kept calling people to the authority of Gods Word and his Law, and that his talks stayed full is a sign that God is at work restoring the center.
That His will, will be done, on earth, as it is in heaven! Amen!
Saturday, August 15, 2009
Tattoos,Legalism
disclaimer: this is mostly a good slapping for myself, its been stewing in me for awhile …
I was listening to Voddie B. this week from the home school conference and noticed how he, without saying it, does not grant neutral ground to those who disagree with him on different issues. ….theres no biblical basis for that…., thats not in the word…. He uses this everywhere that he lays out the biblical case for something. This showed up in his question and answers and in his “the centrality of the home in evangelism.”
This method of Voddies denies the neutral ground that so much of the modern church tries to stand on, that God leaves it up to us, etc. This has allowed massive synchronizing with the culture. And it is rationalized as a way to be relative and to reach the culture.
Along the same vein Nancy and Doug Wilson had some very thought provoking posts with lots of comments from readers on the subject of tattoos, piercings, etc. (good stuff) What Nancy puts forward here ties in with Voddie.
From Nancy Wilson's blog on the tattoo subject....
"...here’s something to think about. My husband raised a great point in a recent talk he gave on pop culture. Christians should say, “Why should I get a tattoo?” but we always rush to ask instead, “Why can’t I get a tattoo?” The burden should be on why we should rather than why we should not. In other words, give me a good reason why a Christian should get a tattoo. But we always want reasons why we should not or cannot. We are usually leaning the wrong direction, which is with the world rather than against it."
This phrase is so true!!!! But we always want reasons why we should not or cannot. We do this because we believe in the myth of neutrality and we are addicted to being the standard. We are supposed to be His ambassadors , bond servants, for the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, its not about our conscience not having a problem with something, but rather what does our Lord want? What sayeth the scriptures?
This would torpedo about 90% of the Christiany sounding, but non biblical presuppositions that are floating all over the place. If I had a nickel for all the times I have been given the “but what about” humanistic thinking masquerading as Christian nuance! My Bad because I kept giving, way to many people, a free ride.
North’s book” Westminster’s Confession” is one long request to the Dr’s and professors of Westminster ,these men who gave cover fire for most of the modern church to believe that Gods Law was non operative. By what standard? who says? If not Gods law then which God are we obeying? Who are we acknowledging as having authority? Deafening silence, If you cannot answer, ignore the questioner. That’s just those theonomy people…….with a dismissive wave of the hand, marginalize Gods word.
It is always theonomy. The only question is…. who or what is the theo of this system? For the Christian, there should be only one answer.
For some reason this is where we drag out the straw man concerns about legalism. But do you always expect the correct change back when you buy something? Legalist. Is it always wrong to abuse the widow and orphan? Legalist. Will you only sleep with your own wife? Legalist. Is the truth,always true? Stinking Pharisee.
Why do you call me Lord, Lord and do not do what I say? Because I don’t want to be a legalist?!?
Botkin was dead on when he said the new educational systems were meant to keep us from being able to correctly think and articulate what’s happening around us.
God has shown a new generation of Christians how to cut through all the baloney and Christian myths!
The next person who says to me….“ we have to be careful not to fall into the legalistic ditch on the other side of the road” is gonna get it.
______________________________________________
Wilson also had a awesome follow up on the tattoo topic which also touched this aspect again of…. We are usually leaning the wrong direction, which is with the world rather than against it." .....”the Bible never urges women to strive for, as in "edgy." Or "provocative, but not too skanky for an evangelical."
I am having a great time laughing at this stuff! David
I was listening to Voddie B. this week from the home school conference and noticed how he, without saying it, does not grant neutral ground to those who disagree with him on different issues. ….theres no biblical basis for that…., thats not in the word…. He uses this everywhere that he lays out the biblical case for something. This showed up in his question and answers and in his “the centrality of the home in evangelism.”
This method of Voddies denies the neutral ground that so much of the modern church tries to stand on, that God leaves it up to us, etc. This has allowed massive synchronizing with the culture. And it is rationalized as a way to be relative and to reach the culture.
Along the same vein Nancy and Doug Wilson had some very thought provoking posts with lots of comments from readers on the subject of tattoos, piercings, etc. (good stuff) What Nancy puts forward here ties in with Voddie.
From Nancy Wilson's blog on the tattoo subject....
"...here’s something to think about. My husband raised a great point in a recent talk he gave on pop culture. Christians should say, “Why should I get a tattoo?” but we always rush to ask instead, “Why can’t I get a tattoo?” The burden should be on why we should rather than why we should not. In other words, give me a good reason why a Christian should get a tattoo. But we always want reasons why we should not or cannot. We are usually leaning the wrong direction, which is with the world rather than against it."
This phrase is so true!!!! But we always want reasons why we should not or cannot. We do this because we believe in the myth of neutrality and we are addicted to being the standard. We are supposed to be His ambassadors , bond servants, for the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, its not about our conscience not having a problem with something, but rather what does our Lord want? What sayeth the scriptures?
This would torpedo about 90% of the Christiany sounding, but non biblical presuppositions that are floating all over the place. If I had a nickel for all the times I have been given the “but what about” humanistic thinking masquerading as Christian nuance! My Bad because I kept giving, way to many people, a free ride.
North’s book” Westminster’s Confession” is one long request to the Dr’s and professors of Westminster ,these men who gave cover fire for most of the modern church to believe that Gods Law was non operative. By what standard? who says? If not Gods law then which God are we obeying? Who are we acknowledging as having authority? Deafening silence, If you cannot answer, ignore the questioner. That’s just those theonomy people…….with a dismissive wave of the hand, marginalize Gods word.
It is always theonomy. The only question is…. who or what is the theo of this system? For the Christian, there should be only one answer.
For some reason this is where we drag out the straw man concerns about legalism. But do you always expect the correct change back when you buy something? Legalist. Is it always wrong to abuse the widow and orphan? Legalist. Will you only sleep with your own wife? Legalist. Is the truth,always true? Stinking Pharisee.
Why do you call me Lord, Lord and do not do what I say? Because I don’t want to be a legalist?!?
Botkin was dead on when he said the new educational systems were meant to keep us from being able to correctly think and articulate what’s happening around us.
God has shown a new generation of Christians how to cut through all the baloney and Christian myths!
The next person who says to me….“ we have to be careful not to fall into the legalistic ditch on the other side of the road” is gonna get it.
______________________________________________
Wilson also had a awesome follow up on the tattoo topic which also touched this aspect again of…. We are usually leaning the wrong direction, which is with the world rather than against it." .....”the Bible never urges women to strive for, as in "edgy." Or "provocative, but not too skanky for an evangelical."
I am having a great time laughing at this stuff! David
Some thoughts
174 I long for Your salvation, O Lord, And Your law is my delight. Psalms 119:174 (NKJV)
Thomas, I listened to and enjoyed that talk from Jasons old professor last Saturday! Working from home has allowed me to listen to a lot of mp3's and if anyone comes across anything (mp3) they thought was notable, pass it on please.
God continues to bless the home auto repair and I am loving it! It has cut in on my writing time for sure, a blog post here and there has been it, but I continue to mentally work through so much! Less of me and more of Him.
___________________________________________________________________________
I have noticed that as the administration of Obama, rants and complains at those who are getting in his way, it is with a disappointed heart that I notice, it is not powerful preaching from Americas pulpits that has them miffed. Wilson is right, the modern church is like a house broken puppy that has been trained to not pee on the furniture. The enemies of Christ do not even see a need to glance at what the bride of Christ is doing.
Compare to 250yrs ago when the status quoi was being shaken, the British complained about how America had run off with a Presbyterian parson. (Whitherspoon) and with derision they spoke of the black regiment,(Presbyterian pastors in their black robes) The focus was not on man, but on what Gods word declared for every segment of life. Outward orientation of man to all of creation. Dominion.
The Church today, continues to examine its heart with more and more introspection. Self focus to irrelevancy.
__________________________________________________________________
I was actually wondering for awhile…. why was it?…. that the reformation was never talked about and celebrated within modern Christianity? You know…. we are Protestants, part of the “protesters”…. and then I realized how most of Christianity would now stand opposed to the reformation and would link arms with the Papists! Yikes! No...... I dont know, what i was thinking.
Wilson once commented that if William Tyndale was alive and visited all the institutions that have his name on their ministry title or on their buildings he would be horrified at what they are doing in his name. He himself would be thrown out on his ear! Do you, and your kids know who Tyndale is?
_______________________________________________________________
I just listened to Botkins talks from the history of the world conference again and he stressed how the social engineers at the turn of the century aimed to undermine Christian manhood. As he listed off those traits that they wanted to expunge from men, through mandatory schooling, I thought it must of worked pretty good, because they were not traits that I saw for all my years in the church. In other words, if those men were still alive they would see nothing in the modern church that would be in the way of their social planning. So of the dozens (and dozens?) of programs I helped to lead, over the years...... I don’t remember any of them trying to instill these traits back into men.
________________________________________________________________
The Gary North book called “Westminsters Confession” was very interesting. The historical perspective was great, North has a doctorate in history. He makes a point of comparing old and new covenants within the accepted paradigm of modern Christianity, IE the law isn’t for us, get men saved, God doesn’t care about how societies are ordered, bus stop theology, etc
Only the old covenant participants had direction on where they were going and how to comport themselves. An absolute standard of right and wrong. Directives from the God who loved them on how to live.
So, even though the Bible say’s the new covenant is better than the old. The modern Christian, in spite of the ascension of Christ to the right hand of the father, and that he has been given all authority on heaven and on earth, the people whom Christ loves and is preparing as his bride….”supposedly never enter the promised land on earth and in history: our marching orders are to march in circles until Jesus comes again.”
The Roman catholic church felt it had the corner on mans relation to God. Today we have shoved aside this error, and passed out miter hats to everyone, and say its up to the individual.
His grace to us and for us is without bounds....amazing.
Thomas, I listened to and enjoyed that talk from Jasons old professor last Saturday! Working from home has allowed me to listen to a lot of mp3's and if anyone comes across anything (mp3) they thought was notable, pass it on please.
God continues to bless the home auto repair and I am loving it! It has cut in on my writing time for sure, a blog post here and there has been it, but I continue to mentally work through so much! Less of me and more of Him.
___________________________________________________________________________
I have noticed that as the administration of Obama, rants and complains at those who are getting in his way, it is with a disappointed heart that I notice, it is not powerful preaching from Americas pulpits that has them miffed. Wilson is right, the modern church is like a house broken puppy that has been trained to not pee on the furniture. The enemies of Christ do not even see a need to glance at what the bride of Christ is doing.
Compare to 250yrs ago when the status quoi was being shaken, the British complained about how America had run off with a Presbyterian parson. (Whitherspoon) and with derision they spoke of the black regiment,(Presbyterian pastors in their black robes) The focus was not on man, but on what Gods word declared for every segment of life. Outward orientation of man to all of creation. Dominion.
The Church today, continues to examine its heart with more and more introspection. Self focus to irrelevancy.
__________________________________________________________________
I was actually wondering for awhile…. why was it?…. that the reformation was never talked about and celebrated within modern Christianity? You know…. we are Protestants, part of the “protesters”…. and then I realized how most of Christianity would now stand opposed to the reformation and would link arms with the Papists! Yikes! No...... I dont know, what i was thinking.
Wilson once commented that if William Tyndale was alive and visited all the institutions that have his name on their ministry title or on their buildings he would be horrified at what they are doing in his name. He himself would be thrown out on his ear! Do you, and your kids know who Tyndale is?
_______________________________________________________________
I just listened to Botkins talks from the history of the world conference again and he stressed how the social engineers at the turn of the century aimed to undermine Christian manhood. As he listed off those traits that they wanted to expunge from men, through mandatory schooling, I thought it must of worked pretty good, because they were not traits that I saw for all my years in the church. In other words, if those men were still alive they would see nothing in the modern church that would be in the way of their social planning. So of the dozens (and dozens?) of programs I helped to lead, over the years...... I don’t remember any of them trying to instill these traits back into men.
________________________________________________________________
The Gary North book called “Westminsters Confession” was very interesting. The historical perspective was great, North has a doctorate in history. He makes a point of comparing old and new covenants within the accepted paradigm of modern Christianity, IE the law isn’t for us, get men saved, God doesn’t care about how societies are ordered, bus stop theology, etc
Only the old covenant participants had direction on where they were going and how to comport themselves. An absolute standard of right and wrong. Directives from the God who loved them on how to live.
So, even though the Bible say’s the new covenant is better than the old. The modern Christian, in spite of the ascension of Christ to the right hand of the father, and that he has been given all authority on heaven and on earth, the people whom Christ loves and is preparing as his bride….”supposedly never enter the promised land on earth and in history: our marching orders are to march in circles until Jesus comes again.”
The Roman catholic church felt it had the corner on mans relation to God. Today we have shoved aside this error, and passed out miter hats to everyone, and say its up to the individual.
His grace to us and for us is without bounds....amazing.
Monday, August 3, 2009
How should we then think?
Doug Wilson has recently run a string of columns with his reflections on thinking biblically when it comes to interacting with the governments never ending offers to just help us. A Christian perspective on welfare and government healthcare.
These follow one after another and build upon the former, good to think about.
Just One More PigletTopic: Obama Nation Building
The Sticky Mass of Federal HelpsTopic: Obama Nation Building
The Bubble Wrap of Our GrumblesTopic: Obama Nation Building
Terrible at MathTopic: Obama Nation Building
These follow one after another and build upon the former, good to think about.
Just One More PigletTopic: Obama Nation Building
The Sticky Mass of Federal HelpsTopic: Obama Nation Building
The Bubble Wrap of Our GrumblesTopic: Obama Nation Building
Terrible at MathTopic: Obama Nation Building
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)