Thursday, November 5, 2009

each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.III

third thing...On what exegetical basis, would we, as servants, of the most high, come to understand that, for the first time in 2000 years, part of honoring the wishes of our master would be to split up the families as a part of worshipping Him? How is it that they should not partake in hearing those very things that they should be trained up into? ....." son what did the pastor mean when he talked of such and such?"....Dad, what does this_____ mean?

Voddie has thrown out the challenge again and again to "show me" why should the family be split up?

(sound of crickets chriping)

Yes! we must judge and discern what others do and advocate, No! we do not despise them. But rather, in the biblical example and manner of our sweet loving savior, we respond as he responded to the defenders and teachers of the man made traditions of His day!

Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying: 8 'These people draw near to Me with their mouth, And honor Me with their lips, But their heart is far from Me. 9 And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.'[ Matt 15:7-9 ….and…. …. He answered and said to them, "Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? Matt 15:3

Or in Pauls example, and yes, even Jesus, ridicule them….“why don’t you just split up the family the rest of the week too? Better yet! Just let Caesar teach your kids!" (Doug Wilson has mentioned that these are hard times for a satirist.)

Then His disciples came and said to Him, "Do You know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying?" 13 But He answered and said, "Every plant which My heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted. 14 Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch." Matt 15:12-14 that is a good one! (If anyone ever asks…” did Jesus make fun of people?” … you can start here.)

And is not "So then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding." Romans 14:19, in context, talking about ….."Hey, whats to eat?"

So no more smoothie jokes. But its always open season on coffee, “where’s Rob…..”

But as for you, speak the things which are proper for sound doctrine: Titus 2:1

each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.II

Second thing… what should be our Perspective? Are we free agents?

Proverbs says about a wife who loves her husband… “that his heart trusts safely in her” so she is out doing business transactions left and right and he safely trusts in her. My wife pays attention to me and will do things for me or in my place and nails it most of the time and can say …” I knew you would like that” If she was concerned that her “growth as a women” was being stunted, or wondering if she is missing out on “Liberty” by being focused on her husband she would instead say…” I just did what I, thought was best.”

We are the bride of Christ, no?

I recently noted that we are to have the mind of Christ and take every thought captive as servants etc etc. Additionally consider:…

If you understand that you have been bought and paid for…if you realize that you are no longer your own…if you are now a bondservant like James, Paul and John…if you want to do your masters will because you love him and owe him everything, including your next breath…If you want to be like Jesus, doing only what he see’s the father doing and saying only what the father says….if you are trying to study the ways of God so that you can be a good servant … then when you come upon ….a list of examples that would show a pattern….. from your master whom you love with all your heart, should we ponder…..but does this constitute command?

If you really Desire God, with all your heart, would you consider it, optional wisdom? Or would you as a loving servant say, “Master, I wasn’t sure, but I did what I thought would be pleasing to you.”

We, for the most part, do not understand how vast and broad the first commandment is.
Christian liberty is real! And has a place. It should not be driving the bus.

continued....

each one should be fully convinced in his own mind

How does Romans 14 and its Verse 5 "each one should be fully convinced in his own mind." format or change how churchs should be ordered.Family integrated or any old which way as people may prefer?

This will be one of three emails to keep it smaller and make it easier. All three emails form the completed responce.

We have not been asking questions and we need to. This is thrown out to think over, Amen!

First thing.....This passage is about food. Did God intend for what is said here, about food, ( and days) to then be applied and even override clear instruction elsewhere?

We only have to go to chpt 15 to see Paul say...... Now I myself am confident concerning you, my brethren, that you also are full of goodness, filled with all knowledge, able also to admonish one another. 15 Nevertheless, brethren, I have written more boldly to you on some points, as reminding you, because of the grace given to me by God Romans 15:14-15

On the area of food Paul says...." each one should be fully convinced in his own mind..." But he is in other areas admonishing and writing more boldly and in those cases he is not saying .....each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. I noticed that the preceding chapters are totally devoid of any notion of .... each one should be fully convinced in his own mind...

The church at large has taken this.... each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.... and made it the standard De jour for everything! It is a contextual mugging of scripture. This is a lynchpin verse for a lot of "liberty in Christ" which neuters what you said.....We are also restored to our proper position as servants of the Most High God.

Voddies intro talk at Heritage, ( download it!) where he uses Titus to show that there is just oodles of direction given, concerning discipling and body life, that runs crossgrain to our modernist individual way we see things. God left lots of directions for His servants, how else can they serve their master? Between the convention itself and on Sunday Voddie, whether in the body of his talks, but especially during the question and answer portions, pretty much demolished, (with exegetical skill that was a delight to watch) the notion that the God is silent on what he wants going on in the family, education and the Church, by His servants.

Showing just how much biblical principle must be ignored, so that most of the modern Chuch can stand on the neutral island and say....each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.....on these issues.

The same Paul; who in Romans 12:18 said.... If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men. Also says in Romans 16:17 ... Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them. (division over doctines?) This will take judgment and discernment ( gasp)

To be continued..

We are not, part of a mystery religion

While watching an old PBS series on “The West” they talked of how the Indians would go off for a week of intense spiritual introspection and when they would have a vision, they would come back and tell everyone what their name now is, on the basis of what they had been impressed with. I am now to be called “broken stick” or “arrow in the head” or” two for the price of one.” They stressed the point that no one could disagree with them because, only they, had had the vision. My wife and I looked at each other and said, it’s the church.

The standard has become, what too many think, and not what the word says.

When Voddie spoke at Heritage, he talked of how our modernist concept of love that is at odds with Gods word. How there was no confusion over gender roles until after the communist manifesto and its egalitarian viewpoint came on the scene and how except for the last 100yrs, church services were done in the same manner as they had been since the apostles days. The family was together.

There is this women Elder who cannot stand Doug Wilson and I heard her in a debate with Wilson keep saying, “…those scriptures that are the plainest sounding, you have to be the most careful with them.” Upon hearing Wilson make a point about Jesus that was clearly from the word she quickly and strongly pointed out “…that’s not the Jesus I know….” Not because of something else the word says…she just knew, Jesus cannot be like that!

Western thought, Humanism. Overman in his Assumptions book said that the Greeks started with what they thought, and reasoned in their minds to their conclusions. (like Eve did) The Hebrews were supposed to start with what God has said in his word. His word should also be the primary dictionary of the terms we use. If His word is the starting point and we use His definitions, the result of our thinking, done rightly, will be in harmony with His word and with Him.

Heb 11:6 …He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him.

Jesus. Do you really want to know Him? Do you really, really want to be in Him? Will intense worship and praise cause you to abide in him? What will? How do you know?

Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 1 John 2:3-5

You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. John 5:39 His word speaks of Him. Justice , mercy, righteousness, loving kindess etc. We are finite and he is infinite, and at the very best, we will only vaguely see him. It is from his revealed word that we will know him, because that is how he has chosen to reveal himself to us. Wilson at the Piper conference spoke of this. May we become a people after his own heart, may we say that we know and walk in his ways.

Calvin Wrote while urging obedience to God’s commands…”Let us remember this lesson:That to worship our God sincerely we must evermore begin by hearkening to His voice, and by giving ear to what He commands us. For if everyman goes after his own way, we shall wander. We may well run, but we shall never be a wit nearer to the right way, but rather farther from it” From his sermon “Separation unto blessing” Duet 28:9-14

God is so good!

Just another awesome time at the fellowship today! As I leave our worship times with what seems like heaping Costco sized shopping carts of His truth more weeks than not. I think back to one church we left at the same time the pastor made known his intention to turn, Sunday morning service, into a "six items or less express line"

Spirtually, its like my two year old son, after he has been playing in the dirt, its all over his face, lips, and all down the front of him, with the biggest grin.You dont expect to get it all down as it comes out of the fire hose. But it is so fun and glorious to try! As Nathan would say..."Daddy, lets do dat a gen!

This is a comforting verse to me. But Jesus said to him, "Follow Me, and let the dead bury their own dead." Matt 8:22

“Precious Moments” bible

These things you have done, and I kept silent; You thought that I was altogether like you; But I will rebuke you, And set them in order before your eyes. Psalms 50:21
The Lord knows the thoughts of man, That they are futile. Psalms 94:11

My wife has been doing the facebook thing. She is making contact with old church friends from 20 yrs ago. So she now gets the stream of comments everyday on what people are saying. Horrors!

Its like a spoof on the old Saturday Night Live skit, that they would call “Deep thoughts” My impression has been that everyone is now using a Thomas Nelson “Precious Moments” bible and rather than even quoting poorly translated scripture is instead preferring to quote the captions below the illustrations that are interspersed throughout the book. “take time to let God love you today”

Beth is trying to carefully ask questions back to some, you know, stuff like…”what do you mean by that?” But there are issues where she can see a desperate need to try and speak the truth that is missing. It is crossing my mind on how frustrating it will be at times to try to communicate what we are seeing from Gods word now, to many old friends. Much of my core vocabulary will be meaningless!?!

The standard truly is…”well, I believe…” We are thinking back at so many of the Christian fables we sucked up. Beth remembers this one… “Well you know, the women of Corinth were just so pushy and that’s why Paul wrote that. It only applied to them.” My wife now would respond….” And we women today are not, like that?”

Never ever once did it cross our minds to stop and ask anyone, let alone the pastors, “can you show me where the word says that?” or “Where does this come from scripture?”

It really would be easier to talk with someone from the 1600’s than it is to many modern believers. At least I wouldn’t have to argue that the Word is the standard except with some papist or maybe an Anabaptist. (Wilson once made a comment about the Anabaptists that makes me think they would fit right in today…..”Sheriff the Anabaptists are running naked through the grocery store again…”)

"But My people would not heed My voice, And Israel would have none of Me. 12 So I gave them over to their own stubborn heart, To walk in their own counsels. Psalms 81:11-12

Gods grace. He will do it. He cracked open our stony hearts and he will do it for others. All nations whom You have made Shall come and worship before You, O Lord, And shall glorify Your name. Psalms 86:9 It is going to happen someday. I will believe what his word says and keep repeating it. It is easier to stop the tide, then to stop what God has said He will do.

a wheenie Christian faith that has had minor visible impact

Continuing to think about culture. Nobody have a cow, more thinking out loud. Like playdo, stick your fingers in it and work it around.

For all those times you heard someone say that, well such and such, that was cultural. Every time you hear a Christian say this about something, it is probably always predicated on the assumption that culture itself is neutral. Culture just kind of happens and doesn’t really mean anything.

But culture is one of the payoffs of a faith. ...go disciple the nations. It is the fruit made manifest. You will see how well that a god is honored in the society by the degree to which his word has influence. All cultures are religous to the core. Education is one of the most religous things a culture does.

For the humanist, his faith extends to everything. This is not because humanism has a more demanding god. The humanist is just more consisitant with his fath, since it is in sync with his nature. For us christians, our natures, that which seems normal, is at odds with the ways of God. I am convinced the sanctification process is partly a derivative of how we are discipled. How many of us were discipled? Actually we all were discipled, maybe only poorly.

We are used to a wheenie Christian faith that has had minor visible impact on most Christians, let alone the society around us. This leads to an understanding of Christian liberty that seems ubiquitous, because I think, Gods word is being limited.

I had never really thought through my idea of Christian liberty and compared it to the word until last month. It’s the pitts. At some point I should get used to this.

It is helping me by first seeing the framework for life that God established for us from the word. ( more on this later) Christian liberty will have its place inside the framework. Today it is used for the most part, outside of the framework, as a wild card that needs to be played, because we don’t see the framework.

Modern Christianity has believed that, we must turn away from bad stuff. But without Gods Law, without giving Him His sovereignty, without using all of scripture we turn away, and by default embrace a lot of things that we think are benign.

Rob has his finger paints out and is trying to illustrate it as he can see it. We all need to put on our art smocks and catch more vision.

…taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ. 2Cor10:5 If we take every thought captive...how much Christian Liberty will there be? Who is the thinking supposed to be captive to? Is it the norm for us to think in terms of ....taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ ..resulting in Christian liberty, or obedience to Christ?

We need to think about it.

…This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as the rest of the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind… And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God…. which is your reasonable service…we are called to,.. know His will, and approve the things that are excellent, being instructed out of the law,..lest you should be wise in your own opinion, rather… casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ …. that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head--Christ-- Eph 4:17 ,Romans 12:2, Romans 12:1, Romans 2:18 Romans 11:25, 2 Cor 10:5, Eph 4:14-15

I believe I have kept the integrity of the scripture in this run on sentence. All these scripture speak of purpose, deliberateness. If we really look, and meditate about it, does the word suggest we should find way more direction than we usually do? It will always come back to His word. What sayeth the scripture?

Yes there is Christian liberty, just not, as it has been taken for granted.

Swanson had a couple of shows where he lamented at the weekness of our young men. The reason for that would be us fathers. Rats. These talks speak of the foundational building blocks that are part of forming a Christian culture.

Salvaging civilization In this first talk towards the end, he gives the name of what he calls his most important sermon he has ever given. Its on raising sons.

This second talk is a conversation about raising sons too. Raising real men

What we turn to, is every bit as important as what we turn away from.

Too many pastors have denied that Christianity has a form or substance with a nature that would result in impacting 100% of our lives. This is reinforced by most of the music consumed by believers. This is doctrine that comes out of the pulpits and our music. It might be bad and or weak doctrine, but it is doctrine.

Urging a repentance away from success climbing at the expense of your family. But puts forward embracing a basic American family centered humanism, as to what we should be doing.

Rob mentioned Sunday how you can have a movie that has had the swearing taken out of it, but the new technology that did that trick, leaves in place the humanistic worldviews that can be far more dangerous and evil than any foul language. No, that doesn’t mean we will accept the foul language if we can have a decent world view. We want every thought captive thank you. It is what our master calls for!

We like to emphasize strength and dignity to Jamie and Kayla…”did that demonstrate strength and dignity?”.... from proverbs 31.

I like to point out when ever I think about it, what Gods word says about news items or things heard on the radio or in some video we watch...

“that’s stealing…”

“that’s tyranny…”

“She is an older women, we should honor her…”

“that denies Gods Lordship”…

“what does God say about this?….”

“this person denies there is a God, he’s a fool…”

“That’s stepping on the families jurisdiction…”

“ that women has a beard…”

As you are saying Rob , we need to color in the picture for our families. ( to say nothing of us) What we turn to, is every bit as important as what we turn away from. It’s a narrow path we are called to. Not for our righteousness sake, but because that is a part of taking every thought captive, for his own glory. For his kingdom.

Assumptions, Greek vs Hebrew

In the last few weeks I worked on two cars that belonged to Christians and both had their radios turned to “K love” I think.

As I listened it occurred to me it was like listening to my Alma Mater. I received a graduate degree from all the contemporary Christian music I listened to. Doctrines were layed down all over the place without it ever being pointed out that doctrinal statements were even being made. Most listeners would deny that layer after layer of doctrine is being catechized into the listener.

Using music that touches the emotions, with song after song all reinforcing certain basic assumptions is a very effective way to teach. Things that had been assumed, not necessarily drawn from Gods word. But it was unthinkable that elements were not correct or other more important and foundational doctrines might be missing. We all had the holy spirit, we loved God and each other, we all were Christians. For many modern Christians, you go messing with the doctrines of ”K love” and sparks will fly!

Recently I have been paying attention to four areas, and surprisingly, how they overlap. One is the fear of God as depicted in the NT. Another is how the NT describes Christians, how it labels, even defines us, and comparing that with how most American Christians have been trained to see ourselves. The third one is the modern conception of Christian Liberty and how it collides with some basic NT life framework that was emplaced by God. The fourth area is how does God in the NT reveal himself to us, and how have the great church fathers described their walk with God. Augustine, Luther, Calvin, Knox etc

Paul Washer noted the difference in how WE emphasize and how Hebraic writers would emphasize. Repeating, for emphasis.

The following is from Christian Overman ( a student of Francis Schaeffer) from his book “Assumptions that affect our lives” In this book he tried to help us modernists see how our thinking can be so different from biblical thinking.

From pg10,11 he constructs a romantic scene at a wedding ceremony where the Groom says to the bride…”My darling your belly is like a heap of wheat” and the bride responds, ”oh my love you say the kindest things!” (I know, I know, some of you are saying hey Dave we have wives and kids reading some of these…..) Try it on your wives men, they will melt like butter, no?

Overman points out that it sounds strange to us but not to Solomon 3000 yrs ago. We have been taught to think in greek fashion, ….photographic impressions…a primary emphasis is placed on how things are experience by the human eye…..in their literature (Greek) you will often find vivid images, full of color and detail, like a motion picture. The ocean is described as as “wine-blue water” for example and the story of the Odysseus building his raft describes him trimming tall trees with a bronze ax having an olive wood handle and using a chalk line to to plain the planks truly straight.

For the Hebrews, on the other hand, what is of primary concern is the essence of things. For them content came first while external form came second.

He gives the example of Noahs Ark, how no description other than bare facts are given. Three levels, width, length, height , type of wood…The essence of the matter is, this boat is big, sea worthy, and fully functioning... But no visual detail, was the roof flat or sloped, gentle or steep, no description of the tools, what color was the flood waters, etc.

four gospel accounts of the life of Christ , not one author provides a physical description of Jesus. Think about this for a moment. If you had written one of the gospels yourself, wouldn’t you have given at least a brief description of the Lords physical attributes? The fact is we don’t even know if he was tall or short. Yet we have a craving to know how he appeared, as evidenced by the many paintings of Christ our various artists have done,…..

The primary focus of attention upon Jesus in the bible is on his thought, speech and interaction with others. The essence of his being is the focal point. His internal qualities rather than his external shape. His content rather than his “form.” ….

So back to Solomon and his bride description, we can see its about her essence and that he is communicating the…. hope of bearing many children…. something of great value….

Just another aspect to be aware of.

Repeat to Emphasize

I was thinking that Paul Washer would have been just loved, praised, for his message on missions from my previous church’s I attended. But the very same people would be apoplectic hearing his message to the youth group.

He pointed out in his youth message that the Hebrew way to emphasize something is different than what we do today, We capitalize, put it in bold, etc. He said the Hebrew way was to repeat something. My wife noted the line of Holy, Holy, Holy.

Psalms 119 is the 300lb gorilla of this style. It’s the equivalent of size 72 font, highlighted. One long love song about the beauty of Gods law. 150 plus verses, over and over from one angle after another. And why not, since it reveals and reflects the nature and character of God, throwing down the gauntlet and laying out the standard defining what is, justice, mercy and love. The fact that no other chapter comes even close to the emphasizing job done here says something. Or is it just a fluke?

You have Deuteronomy which means the second telling of the law.

We get four different gospels. Was fun to think about what keeps getting repeated.

Today for the first time it registered in my mind, what Paul is saying here in Acts…. But this I confess to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect, so I worship the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets. Acts 24:14 (NKJV)

… believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets.

Here Paul is saying that…. believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets… Was a part of the early church’s understanding, a doctrine, as understood by the sect called…. the Way.

Mr. Washer pointed out to the youth, that a common understanding believed by them, cannot be found in the bible. On the flip side, the church today needs to come to grip with things, that are in the bible . What sayeth the scriptures?

That Tatto Thing

I enjoy that Wilson helps me to see how scripture casts long shadows that soon touch everything. In manners that are not obvious to those who don’t want to surrender to God. I am talking about Christians. Sanctification comes with a “to go” bag. You will not get it all before leaving the restaurant. We spend a lifetime being transformed.

The first one is linked to his wife’s blog and some of the weeping and wailing there on this topic.

Like Jello on a Plate

Unleashing Your Inner Fundamentalist ….she wants to be modest and discrete. She is not trying to achieve an effect that the Bible never urges women to strive for, as in "edgy." Or "provocative, but not too skanky for an evangelical."….

Night Shift at the Flying J

....this might be an illustration of what Pastor Wilson is saying: My brother used to be one of the worship leaders at Mars Hill in downtown Seattle. When our family visited we saw people of all kinds, with all sorts of tatoos and piercings and dressed every which way. From what we could tell all were very nice and wanting to know more of God. But a mother came in during the service with her four small children and a baby in her arms. Her face was free from any markings, no piercings, and she was dressed simply but pretty. The peace about her demeanor was striking. Emily ( from the comments section)


Triangles Don't Have Outliers


But let him who glories glory in this, That he understands and knows Me, That I am the Lord, exercising lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness in the earth. For in these I delight," says the Lord. Jer 9:24