keeping an eye on both the NT and the OT

Trying to get on the same page, what does the word say and not say....concerning the Old Testament and the covenant made with Israel.

A) Agreed, Because it was God that made the covenant and he made it with Israel, it was only for them.

B) Disagree, that Gods Word show’s that the rituals and ceremonies that entailed how Israel was to approach God to make atonement for their sin, is part and parcel locked together with that part of the Law that was to govern society. His Law was given to them, but to impute that it was meant to only apply to them?!?

It seems a lot of what followed is based on this supposition. That premise frames and predetermines the end of the discussion. But I don’t see that the scriptures you used, establish this, as being what God has said or intended. The scriptures yuo used did establish point A)

C) I know of no one who has ever espoused that any law system can make anyone righteous, or that it is even a consideration.

D) some stuff that I cannot get around, Paul telling Timothy to study the Holy scriptures, for doctrine, reproof, correction, for instruction in righteousness to become a man fully equipped for every good work. But how, if there wasn’t a tangible standard? (hint: I think this is what Rob is getting at)

Not just spiritual good work, but every good work. We have to assume that Paul expected Timothy to then pass this on to more and more people. He was a Pastor. Paul didn’t say “your going to need to read my letter to the Romans or you will miss it” Paul gave two letters to Timothy and knew that he had the scriptures and that was enough. We dont tear out the NT!

How did the early church and into the middle ages, end human sacrifice, torture as instruments of State use, put limits on governing authorities, end slavery?

When Wycliffe, the Morningstar (1275AD?) posited that Gods Law ruled over all, even Kings, no one argued about that. They just couldn’t accept that he wanted the common man to be able to read it for himself.

Marc used to beat me over the head with the book of I John, you havent lived till Marc calls you apostate in a church service. Kidding, but it seemed like it. But I John seems to be in conflict with this premise about the Law. John says the same thing twice....this is not about righteousness, but obedience to God

1Jn 2:3-7 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.

And again

1Jn 5:1-5 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?